Holocaust memorial at The HagueA Poem on Israel: ‘We Are Wrong’ by Michael Vanyukov The Society March 23, 2024 Culture, Poetry 70 Comments . We Are Wrong You shall remember what Amalek did to you on the way, when you went out of Egypt, how he happened upon you on the way and cut off all the stragglers at your rear, when you were faint and weary, and he did not fear God. —Devarim (Deuteronomy) 25: 17-19 It turns out we’ve always been wrong.We thought that our blood was no longerTo flow under knives. Couldn’t be wronger.We thought we’d become good and strong. We thought we could change human mindsBy giving and never demanding,By helping—but look how it’s ended:We’re hunted. We’re easy to find. No matter how you and I live—The hounds, they are ever pursuing.They “only want peace”—hate is stewing,To force us to die or to leave. To die now, wherever we are.To leave the land that is G-d-given—Because inasmuch as we’re living,We must go away, stay afar. Afar from the fire and sharp steel,And savages with or withoutKind words that would mask the beast’s snout—While it’s getting ready to kill. … But wrong as we’ve been, we’ve arrivedTo what our ancestral remembranceTells us at the Promised Land entrance.We know what to do to be right. . . Michael Vanyukov is a Professor of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Psychiatry, and Human Genetics at the University of Pittsburgh. He immigrated to the United States 30 years ago as a refugee from the Soviet Union. NOTE TO READERS: If you enjoyed this poem or other content, please consider making a donation to the Society of Classical Poets. The Society of Classical Poets does not endorse any views expressed in individual poems or commentary. Trending now: 70 Responses Brian A. Yapko March 23, 2024 This is a deeply powerful poem, Michael — one which must not have been easy to write since it describes a terrible loss of innocence. Since World War II and the quite resolve of “never again” it seemed impossible that the overt, proud, aggressive antisemitism that has been unleashed could ever happen. This is especially true in America where Jews were welcomed from the very start of the American Revolution (read about Haym Solomon, arrested by the British as a spy and who personally lent huge sums of money to the fledgling republic without which independence might never have taken place.) Jews have accepted in the U.S. Supreme Court and in Science, created the Broadway musical and the entire film industry. Jews had every reason to believe they were accepted and belonged. As your poem so eloquently observes: “We were wrong.” Who would have dreamed that Times Square and Hollywood Boulevard could become masses of people who approve the slaughter of Jews? The aggressive antisemisitm of our “friends and neighbors” here in the U.S. can never be unseen. Even if there were peace tomorrow and all was well between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs, how can we ever forget a generation of fellow-Americans chanting the genocidal warcry “from the River to the Sea…” and reveling like savages in the destruction of Jewish lives and property. This will affect us for generations to come. It can never be unseen and it has been bridge-burning. I hope the wokesters are happy with the hate they have cemented into our culture. As for Israel itself, despite Biden’s perfidious movements Qatar-wise, it would be even more wrong to now try to negotiate with an enemy whose only negotiation position is “we want 100% of the land and we want you all dead.” Of course having an enemy that is clearly evil makes Israel (and allies with a teenage level or better moral compass) powerful. And as Golda Meir once famously said, “Israel’s secret weapon is that we have nowhere to go.” That is more true now than it has ever been. Thank you for the sad but powerful and thought-provoking read. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Brian, thank you so very much for your understanding everything. It’s a horrible heartache to see what’s going on. Even worse is that it is as expected. Happy Purim. חג פורים שמח Reply Reid McGrath March 23, 2024 What is the meaning behind writing God G-d? I’ve seen this before. I’m just ignorant and curious. Thanks. Reply Brian A. Yapko March 23, 2024 Reid, as I understand it Orthodox Jews will not write out the word “God” because they believe that to do so is a form of taking the Lord’s name in vain. This is consistent with using the term “Adonai” in the Bible which means “Lord” as a substitution for the unutterably holy name of God. In short, it is a grammatical way of showing respect for our Creator. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Brian, right on! Moreover, when speaking outside of prayer/service, even the “A” word is not pronounced, replaced with “Adoshem” (“shem” being “name”) and the second word of the expression become “EloKeinu” (“k” instead of “h”). Reid McGrath March 24, 2024 Understood. Thanks Brian. Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Reid, as you may know, the Jews do not pronounce the Name that is spelled in the Tanakh (the Jewish Bible). Many Orthodox Jews take the English or another non-Hebrew language word that substitutes, in those languages, the ineffable Name with additional respect, not accorded to other words. As a Jew, I respect that custom. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 23, 2024 The anti-semitism that one sees exploding in the current controversy over Gaza is actually a new development, and is not linked to earlier forms. This new anti-semitism is a pure product of left-liberal attitudes and beliefs. It is the up-to-date anti-semitism of the left-liberal elites in academia, government, journalism, and the mass media. Left-liberalism is a religion, and religions have sacred, unquestionable dogmas. One of them is the superiority of “victims” over “oppressors,” and the supreme superiority of non-whites over whites. Another is the absolute illegitimacy of any forceful response by Western nations and peoples against the depredations or attacks of non-Western ones. For this reason, the atrocities of October 7 were openly celebrated by left-liberals, and the severe response of Israel to those atrocities is causing massive outrage and world-wide moral whining. Left-liberals cannot bear it when their religious ordinances are violated. Moreover, left-liberals have a protective attitudes towards non-Western militants and terrorists. The fact that the IDF is systematically exterminating Hamas in Gaza sends them into a real religious rage. This explains the hysterical screams for a “cease-fire” at all costs. Thank God for Netanyahu. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Joseph, you are right, as usual. It took some effort for the KGB and its brotherly communist agencies to create a pitiful tiny “Palestinian” nation out of an enormous mass of Arabs, from whom they do not differ, coming from Arabia and the rest of the “Arab” world. The goal of the antisemitic Soviet Union was to undermine the West’s position in the area, while enjoying the transformation of Israel—in the willing world’s perception—from the small, brave, and admirable David into a huge and ugly Goliath. The Soviet Union is no more but the ruse is maintained. The “Biden” administration is now directly threatening Israel, to force it to let Hamas survive. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 23, 2024 Yes, I see your point. Biden’s only interest is in the 2024 election. He does not give a damn about Gaza, but only about the Moslem vote in the key state of Michigan. This is also why certain normally anti-Israeli types (like the hillbilly fake translator) are now tongue-tied, and have not uttered a word about October 7 and the intense struggle that has followed it. They know that a major split is going on in the Democrat Party, and they are terrified that anything they might say could contribute to a 2024 defeat. Brian A. Yapko March 23, 2024 This is extremely insightful, Joe. I had long wondered about the strange disconnect today’s antisemitism and older forms of it and whether acceptance had been a lie. I can see that this Hamas-loving antisemitism is an entirely new phenomenon cobbled together out of DEI, CRT and other vile but now-ubiquitous orthodoxies. The funny thing is, I doubt that 90% of those advocating for cease-fire and weeping for the Palestinian Arabs actually gives a rat’s ass. If they authentically cared about life, they would be screaming their heads off about Yemen, Syria and Tibet. But when they have a chance to attack Jewish targets, the lure is irresistable. The religion paradigm you present is powerful and completely accurate. I know a ridiculous number of Jewish Democrats who do not understand the need to pivot. When presented with the choice of deciding whether Israel is right or official Democratic policy, they will go with the Democrats every single time. Every. Single. Time. It’s like Stockholm Syndrome. And so of course they start criticizing Israel because THE PARTY tells them to and they abdicate the responsibility of thinking for themselves, utterly content to be gaslighted. They’ll go to their early terror-induced graves with an epitaph that says “he/she was a good Democrat.” They’re like those good German Jews who refused to leave Nazi Germany in the mid-1930s when they still had the chance because, gosh darn it, they were Germans first. Not that Hitler agreed with them. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 These days, “Jewish Democrats” sound like “Women for Rapists.” Joseph S. Salemi March 23, 2024 I am reminded of Max Naumann, the Jewish leader of a Jewish-Nationalist-German organization that supported the Nazis, and who spoke disparagingly of “filthy, caftan-wearing, Polish shtetl Jews” who had to be kept out of Germany. Today, Jewish Democrats who are furiously anti-Israeli are the heirs of Herr Naumann. Reply Margaret Coats March 23, 2024 A strong and unified poem, Michael, from “It turns out we’ve always been wrong” to “We know what to do to be right.” The sad disillusionment is necessary because (from within the poem), “hate is stewing.” Love and friendship are in fact acts of the will that need to be repeated in order to strengthen them, but hate can be an unthinking response to circumstances. It can grow and spread easily. I agree with Joseph Salemi that current antisemitism worldwide is a product of newer attitudes, and it is therefore surprising in many ways. Understanding it as a product of godless, left-liberal religion is valuable. Nevertheless, there are basic, older elements of hate within it, that make the stew more potent. That’s one of your points, Michael, in this assertive poem. As always, this calls for vigilance and fortitude–lessons recently re-learned. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Margaret, thank you for your kind words. All true, except I doubt that any of those attitudes are particularly new. One of the components of the Passover Seder, soon to be celebrated, in the Haggadah, its liturgical text, are words, “It is not only one that has risen up against us to destroy us. Rather, in every generation, they rise against us to annihilate us.” It is thus not really surprising – not to the Jews. What may seem relatively new is the neo-Bolshevik progressives’, the intelligentsia’s, openly joining militant Islam and traditional antisemites in Jew-hate. They no longer even pretends to be “anti-Zionists” – that fig list on antisemitism was invented in the Soviet Union, and everybody understood what it meant when “Zionists” were condemned in “Pravda.” The KGB formed “The Anti-Zionist Committee” that consisted of some celebrity establishment Jews – the rest of the Jewry called them “The Antisemitic Committee” – they were as absurd as Naumann Joe mentioned. So it only seems new: antisemitism has always been part of the Marxian worldview, G-dless by definition. If Stalin did not croak on Purim 71 years ago, – today is Purim too – there would be no Jews in the USSR. You are exactly right about vigilance, and it boggles one’s mind indeed how the Democrat Jews can support the party whose vanguard are open Jew-haters and race-baiters, while the old guard, like Schumer, are quislings. Reply Roy Eugene Peterson March 23, 2024 Such a precious poem as beautifully written as it is haunting! Satan continues to stir the pot of ignorant and helacious hatred becoming more pronounced again as it once was the harbinger of the holocaust. It is up to us to make sure that never happens again! The comments provide excellent amplification of the causes of antisemitism, as well as common morals and decency that are suffering along with it. We have a common foe known as the locked mind leftist liberal cabal! Reply Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Roy, your encouragement is precious to me. I agree with every word. My concern, mildly put, is that those trends grow precipitously, and, as before, there is no adequate resistance to them. In fact, so many of those who are supposed to resist, those educated and knowing history, have joined the mob. The line dividing that history and our time has become hair-thin. Reply Warren Bonham March 24, 2024 “Never again” caught on for a while but now antisemites no longer feel the need to hide. They’ve always found refuge at the UN but now are increasingly lauded in elite academic, cultural and political circles. Somehow “knowing what to do to be right” doesn’t seem like enough but I don’t have any other great ideas. Excellent poem! Reply Michael Vanyukov March 24, 2024 Dear Warren, thank you very much. “Never again,” as many have known, has always been a slogan. Like all slogans, it’s been half-empty, half wishful thinking. At least, Israel has come to understanding that it has to do what needs to be done. Or so I hope. Reply Susan Jarvis Bryant March 24, 2024 Michael, your words pack a powerful poetic punch. It seems many have a very short memory, which is why history is destined to repeat itself. The sadness of this fact is history is being rewritten and repackaged before our very eyes, fomenting a hatred that is sweeping the globe. Thank you for bringing us some heart-rending clarity through poetry. Your words hold more weight than any current mainstream news article. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 24, 2024 Dear Susan, your words are a great reward to me. What you said about clarity and weight is the main reason I wrote that. Sad as the topic is, I am happy you consider my rendition fitting. Thank you. Reply Daniel Kemper March 24, 2024 How much did they unfreeze for Iran? 40 billion ? How many other countries do they run this scam on? Ukraine. Iran. Etc Foreign aid out and a huge kickback returns. Iranian money is the biggest, I’m sure. They’re probably threatening to hold up payments and/or expose the scam if Hamas is eliminated. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 24, 2024 Dear Daniel, of course, there would be neither the Ukrainian nor Iranian problem if they were not created by the evil cretins of the current communist admin. I shudder when I think what kind of hold all the savages in the world, from Russia, to Iran, to China, have over “Biden” and his camarilla. Reply Stephen M. Dickey March 24, 2024 Could not have said it better myself. Joseph S. Salemi March 26, 2024 Well, there you have it, folks. Biden and his left-liberal administration have just betrayed Israel. By allowing this stupid UN demand for a cease-fire to pass; and by not making it dependent in any way on a release of the Israeli hostages; and by telling Israel that it may not attack Rafah without a plan for protecting civilians; and at the same time insisting that Gazan civilians cannot be moved out of the area; the United States has just told its ally that it must stop fighting this war, and give up. And for what? I’ll tell you for what: 1) To win the states of Michigan and Minnesota in the next election. 2) To keep a lot of stupid, sobbing, oversentimental Europeans happy. 3) To prevent the utter destruction of a major terrorist force that left-liberals idolize. 4) To show our subservience to the windbags in the UN. 5) To bring about “regime change” in Israel. It’s time for the Israelis to go it alone. Let them attack Rafah so hard and so violently that the jackasses of World Opinion will be aghast. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 26, 2024 Thank you, Joseph, for reacting so decisively. One thing where I differ a bit is that I don’t believe Europeans are sentimental at all. I think it is, indeed, stupidity – and laziness. Summing up in evil. They’ve flooded their countries with Muslim laborers to solve their need in endless vacations and afternoon siestas and now have to gain those laborers’ votes, which can be done only at Israel’s cost. They hate the Jews anyway – so that is easy for them. Reply Mia March 26, 2024 Dear Michael I don’t know if you remember but I have commented on your excellent poems before and made my support of Israel very clear. So it is with sadness that I write how I find this comment very upsetting and biased. Call me a sentimental old fool. Even stupid. But lazy or evil!? I do live in the UK originally from Cyprus so not quite European , more Middle Eastern. My half of the island was taken by Turkey by force in 1974. Keeping me and my family out of our homes for fifty years! I heard recently that more and more churches that up to now may have been used to house animals or as warehouses are now turned into mosques. They were not invited so that people could take afternoon siestas.! My grandfather went out in blazing heat to plough, sow and water fields so that his family would survive. Some of the refugees from the north who I know and are now in the south , after leaving everything behind, some are millionaires, purely and simply through hard work. Contrast that with so called Palestinian refugees. Moslems are flooding Europe by design! Moslems are living on the hard work of Europeans, as they are given everything when they arrive when many actual Europeans themselves are struggling. Half of Europe went to fight Hitler. Many died and risked their lives to rid the evil from their midst. To tar everyone with the same brush is a travesty to their memory. Just my humble opinion. But I too believe in truth and justice and feel compelled to add my insights into the debate. PS let us see how many comments I get about my situation. Probably the same as last time , practically zero. Lannie David Brockstein April 5, 2024 On March 26th, 2024, Michael Vanyukov wrote: >>> “One thing where I differ a bit is that I don’t believe Europeans are sentimental at all. I think it is, indeed, stupidity – and laziness.” ~~~~~ Michael, the same “calls for genocide depend on their context” stupidity has not been limited to Steve Urkel, I mean former Harvard President Claudine Gay. It has spread like an alleged Wuhan lab leak to London’s police department: The Telegraph (March 31st, 2024) – “Met police officer tells woman swastikas need to be “taken in context” during pro-Palestinian march”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0bOMnStG4g Britain’s policy of appeasement in response to the existential threat of the Muslim supremacists and their Woke enablers is so revolting that even Neville Chamberlain must be spinning in his grave. Here in Canada, things are not much better. The same can be said about the USA and the EU. Anybody who is not yet aware of the British author and journalist “Douglas Murray” who is wise to the deceptions of Muslim supremacism and their Woke enablers, and who has reported from Israel many times since October 7th, 2023, should consider viewing his online interviews about Europe, as well as about Israel and what it must “do to be right” (to quote part of the last line in your “We are Wrong” poem). In doing so, their faith in Britain’s best will probably increase. Michael, I enjoy reading your poems, as well as your comments. You shining a light on the situation in Israel and other countries is like a breath of fresh air, in my opinion, as the governments of Europe and North America have not yet stopped being willfully ignorant about what is really going on regarding Iran’s war of aggression against the West; with the Trump administration having been an exception that hopefully shall become the rule. From Lannie. Joseph S. Salemi March 26, 2024 Dear Mia — I also think that M. Vanyukov’s attack on Europeans was too broad and unfair. Many Europeans are desperately attempting to regain control of their nations. They have done so in Hungary and Italy, and are struggling to do so in France and Germany. Even Sweden is seeing a resurgence of hard-right politics, thank God! Frankly, I wish that Greece had seized Cyprus in the 1960s, when the difficulties with Makarios were getting out of control. And if Greece had been fully backed up by NATO, the Turks wouldn’t have been able to do anything. But unfortunately — then as now — NATO is controlled by a very stupid and unperceptive United States. I agree completely that the displacement of Cypriot Greeks was an injustice, but it was up to the United Kingdom to take a stand and prevent it, since the U.K. was the original occupying power. The United States could do nothing in 1974 because of the political paralysis brought about by liberals who hated Richard Nixon. Yes, Moslems are inundating Europe BY DESIGN, but it is not the design of the ordinary working-class Europeans. It is the design of a diseased E.U. administration that is actively encouraging their arrival, instead of preventing it or fighting against it. Reply Mia March 26, 2024 Dear Mr Salemi, thank you. I really appreciate your kind reply. I absolutely agree on all points. And you explain it all far more clearly. I have no desire to be argumentative with Michael and want to quote from the poem but in fact the whole poem is relevant They forced us to die and to leave and stay afar those words speak to me because that applies to me too. From the river to the sea seems to include Cyprus also. Interestingly some Jewish authorities believe that in the past Cyprus was included as part of greater Israel . So I will always support Israel as it is the only bit of land that the Jewish people can call home and they were wrongfully displaced from it. It doesn’t mean I ignore the Palestinians but they could have made homes in places such as Jordan and lived in peace. Or Syria or Lebanon, Egypt etc. But they don’t appear to want peace. Greece is also not what it used to be , its borders have shrank dramatically . In fact Turkey is land that was once called Asia Minor , and Greek. Asia Minor were St Paul help to establish the seven churches of Asia. Not with Turks but with Greeks. The populations of both Greece and Israel are very similar in size. I believe it is about 10 to 12 million each. Imagine the two arguably oldest races in the world and Turkey a relative newcomer has a population of nearly 80 million. I expect you know all of this and more but I am just writing it out there. I have tried not to comment recently because when I think of all the wars I find it all very upsetting. But unfortunately there are no other Greeks taking up the fight , it can’t just be left to me. No wonder we are lost. Have to laugh otherwise I will cry. That is why I agree with you Michael to a certain extent. Stupidity. Yes . Mentally lazy. No. Just preoccupied with different things. Evil no. So I know the good and the bad as far as Greeks are concerned. But since we are critiquing nations may I also ask one thing. Mr Vanyukov, can I ask you one thing with regard to Judaism and jewish people. If the Jewish people have been chosen to be a lamp unto the nations how far do you think they have been able to fulfil the task? I for one want them to live in peace in order to do so. But it will be interesting to see what you think. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 28, 2024 Dear Mia, please see my reply to Joseph – and you.. Michael Vanyukov March 28, 2024 Mia, I don’t think I am qualified to judge how well the Jews performed in trying to be “a light unto the nations” (Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 42:6). Given, however, that the world measures its time in Jewish weeks and is guided by the Jewish Decalogue, however imperfectly following that guidance, while subjecting the Jews to attempts at genocide, as the Passover Haggadah says, in every generation – it seems to me the Jews have done pretty well. Not for themselves, again – the world does not seem to appreciate that light or other contributions too much. Michael Vanyukov March 28, 2024 Joseph and Mia, obviously, I did not mean ALL Europeans, and I am not tarring everybody with the same brush. It is a truism that there is a great variation in the opinions and attitudes – as a geneticist, I am quite aware of that. It is a common shorthand – just as you can talk about “Americans” when considering policies of the current government in relation to, say, Israel, without having to say every time that, likely, more than half of Americans disagree with the Democrat policies. I was probably too categorical in my short statement and definitely did not want to offend allies like you or sane Europeans. And surely I hope that the situation in Europe will change. People like Geert Wilders give me some hope for that. Nonetheless, as Mia says, “Moslems are flooding Europe by design! Moslems are living on the hard work of Europeans, as they are given everything when they arrive when many actual Europeans themselves are struggling.” Note that when saying that, there is no caveat that it is not ALL Muslims – the same shorthand I used. Given that we agree, I don’t really see the reasons for you to be upset by my words. It’s about time for Europeans (in greater numbers) to be preoccupied by their problems. It would also be unrealistic not to take into account that Europeans have free elections and bear some responsibility for their choice as a voting population regardless of the class (again, that’s not to say ALL). I also suspect that the “working-class Europeans” outnumber the rest. So, whatever designs the E.U. admin might have, they do not rule in a vacuum. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 28, 2024 Many ancient cultures have divided time into seven-day weeks (the ancient Greek “hebdomad” is an example). The earliest human calculation of time, apart from the simple division into day and night, was understanding the cycles of the moon, which everyone can notice. The Babylonians were especially precise in these matters. Once you see that the moon waxes and wanes in a period of roughly 30 days, the division of that time into four weeks is a natural development. It isn’t something that comes out of Genesis. To be perfectly frank, all this talk about “a light unto the nations” is itself part of the entire problem. Every nation and culture is a light unto itself. It has its own identity and practices and laws and styles and patterns. Different cultures can learn useful things from each other, but the notion that one of them is “special” and “authoritative” over the others is arrogant. This “light unto the nations” crap is where we Americans got the stupid idea that we are “a city on the hill” that must serve as a model to all other nations. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 28, 2024 Joseph, I responded to the question – to the best of my limited abilities. The expression is biblical and says nothing about being “authoritative” or “special” – those are your words. If you choose to interpret it as arrogant, it is, again, your view and choice, not Jewish. As to Mia’s original question and my response to it: the week, according to which the world lives, is Jewish, regardless of how many other civilizations have had 7-days weeks and whether it is natural or not. And I did not exactly mean the 7 days. I meant that your Saturday could be on Monday, and the first day of the week on Tuesday, but they are when when they are because of Shabbat (it is actually called like that in other languages – “subbota” in Russian for instance). Every culture may be a light unto itself, but not every culture is a light unto others. Perhaps living according to bushido would be better than according to what is called Judeo-Christian ethics (or, at least, having that as the foundation), but that is not the reality. And the US has indeed been the “shining city on the hill,” for that matter – for many others. For those who have been oppressed by the Marxians of the world, for instance. In Soviet Moscow, we always looked at the flag over the US Embassy as a symbol of freedom – we did not think it was “stupid.” Too bad the US has been losing that shining, along with its religious foundation. And it’s not the Babylonians who are taking over. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 28, 2024 Michael, we have no serious disagreement. It hardly matters where the division of the month into weeks comes from. As for “a light unto others,” I find it an unfortunate phrase. My basic argument is that every nation, race, and culture has its own essential nature, and also has the right to defend that essential nature from the intrusions of others. After all, this is what the Israelis are fighting for right now — the right to be a Westernized, Jewish state, with their own laws and rules and operational choices! They do not want to be engulfed in Levantine squalor, sharia-law, and ignorance. The American flag that you saw flying back in the past was not a “light unto the nations” symbol. It was a symbol of toughness, counter-revolution, and anti-Communism — that is, a symbol of armed resistance to the sick Communist idea that Marxism and the Soviet system were “lights unto the nations.” Communism was dedicated to changing everybody, everywhere! The American flag said “Fuck you! to that idea. Things have changed since the end of the Cold War. Today, the American flag has been hijacked by globalist scum who want to impose their sick DEI and transgender ideas all over the world — another one of those damned “light unto the nations” ideas! Mia March 28, 2024 Dear Joseph I hope I can call you by your first name. For some reason I find it difficult. I am sorry , I am the one who started the debate about Israel being a light unto the nations. I believe there is something to it but it is my opinion and also the opinion of many brought up in the Christian religion. Jesus was Jewish. So where the disciples and the first Christians. (Just as I side note or btw, I read yesterday a Muslim comment that Jesus is Muslim!) Not to digress though, my take on the phrase , Light unto the nations, isn’t about authority but it is definitely about being a good example to others. I may be wrong though. Not better than others, because it most definitely isn’t about pride but about being Godly. And pride is one of the seven deadly sins. I commented below at the same time as you. Best wishes Mia Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 28, 2024 Of course you may call me by my first name. I wish everyone here would do that. My reply to Michael just above will fill you in on my basic approach to these matters. Let me just add that it is my fixed view that when talking about political or military matters, any mention of religious ideas is a harmful distraction. The only thing that matters in a life-and-death struggle is winning and surviving. So when people start quoting the Bible I get very impatient. Thinking about morals or the Bible when you are in a savage battle only guarantees that you will be beaten. The people who are screaming against the Israelis right now are largely doing so under the disguised religious grounds of “morality” and “decency” and “humanitarianism.” The Israelis (being excellent and experienced fighters) are paying no attention to that fakery. Mia March 28, 2024 Dear Joseph what can I say. I certainly do not side with those who call for Israel to stop fighting . I recognise it is in a life or death situation. So just because I believe in this one idea, of Light unto the Nations I would not equate it with transgender crap and I don’t even know what DEI stands for. For me, Light unto the nations as far as Israel is concerned is about being Godly. And that includes fighting the enemy, fighting for survival because that is exactly what God instructed. It is really interesting how we can have a different understanding of a phrase. But whatever we think about that one phrase, I wish to make it clear that it has nothing to do with being woke as far as I am concerned. That is all anathema to me. A ploy to bring people down to the lowest common denominator. And then kick them in the teeth for it. I realised also that I have used the word stupid when I really meant naive. Good people can be very naive. Ironically the very people that can fall into traps laid by the not stupid but clever, not necessarily intelligent but clever people. Joseph S. Salemi March 28, 2024 Dear Mia — DEI just stands for Diversity, Equity, Inclusion. It’s really just a fancy synonym for being in favor of wokeness. Yes, some people are naive rather than being stupid. But in combat the enemy pays no attention to that distinction, and kills both types. I think we can have an honest disagreement about the “light unto the nations” idea. For you it is an important religious concept. For me, I see it as something that can be used by the enemy as a propaganda tool. Mia March 28, 2024 Dear Joseph, Can you believe I have just received a suggestion from youtube for a video entitled ‘DEI has to be destroyed’ I have never had a suggestion for that ever before. A coincidence? About an hour after our comments? I haven’t listened to it but caught sight of one of the comments. DEI -Didn’t Earn It. Well I think I better start concentrating on Easter instead of being on the net, but it doesn’t help that Greek Orthodox Easter is next month. … Reply Mia March 28, 2024 Dear Michael I have to be honest I was surprised and therefore sad that you have such a low opinion of Europeans. Perhaps it is because, even without being acquainted with you I value your opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions of course, just as I stand by mine that muslims are flooding Europe and the Uk etc. I expect I give Europeans in general too much of the benefit of the doubt. But I absolutely agree, it is only necessary for good people to do nothing for evil to flourish. So Europeans should be more involved in running their own affairs. They seem to have absolutely no idea of how to help themselves. Is it a kind of resignation that there is nothing they can do I wonder, almost as though things are predetermined. Do people get the leaders they deserve? Is everything that happens to us a result of our own actions? I think these are questions that we can debate forever. On the topic of Israel, I agree, sadly, the world is nowhere near as grateful to Judaism and for the Torah as it should be. But gratitude in general is really something the whole world seems to lack. I sincerely hope that Israel will overcome and be a shining light. The world definitely needs it. (I also hope the world recognises this, but it seems to need help to do so). Is it true I wonder whether to those that much is given , much is expected? I just wish that the borders of Israel were better thought out when it was created. But who knows whether or not it would have made a difference. It is amazing what planning and forward thinking by politicians can achieve or not as the case may be. I better stop otherwise I will be going on forever. If only things were easy to resolve. with best wishes, Mia Reply Michael Vanyukov March 29, 2024 Dear Mia, while you are sad, it does not seem to be because you are really in any disagreement with my opinion. And I am sad as well, but so is the reality. I am not sure whether people always get leaders they “deserve,” but then I don’t quite know how they can deserve any. What I do know is that when they elect their leaders under a free election system (unlike, say, those in totalitarian states where elections are a farce), they get what they chose, along with the program those leaders had. Often those leaders cheat – sometimes grievously, like did Ariel Sharon when he adopted the program of his opponent after being elected and caused tremendous harm to Israel. But then, the opposition to the “disengagement” was not strong enough, and their cheating hence cannot fully justify the choice. Nobody asked Israel what its borders should be, but it accepted the partition resolution (after being deprived of the territory that was originally thought of as the Jewish National Home in accordance with the San Remo treaties). That UNGA partition proposal was rendered obsolete by the Arab attack of 1948 and refusal of Arabs to accept any Jewish state at all, which refusal has not ever changed. The issue is not of borders and not territorial at all. It’s the Arab denial of the right of Jewish self-determination in the Jewish native land, while Arabs are self-determined in 22 countries, uniquely among the nations. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 29, 2024 Joseph, I totally agree that we have no serious disagreements :). After all, it’s Isaiah’s words, not mine, about the Jews’ role in the order of things – so you disagree with him, not me. Having grown up in an atheist state, I arrived to religion at a mature age – on rational grounds. But even for an atheist, it appears irrational to deny the role of religion – whether “dangerous,” as you say, or not. I am not sure how it can be a “distraction” when it actually motivates people to act and forms the foundation of this civilization. I am saying “this” not because Islam has not created a civilization – but exactly because Islam, which mimics a religion, is the main engine of so many negative events and trends, whether we want that or not. If Islam is not opposed by an equally powerful set of ideas, which can come only from religion, it will be meeting, as it increasingly does, a disjointed population pursuing petty needs rather than a civilization that can withstand destruction. Witness, again, what’s going on in Europe. The only reason we may be not there yet is that Islam itself is not (yet) monolithic. “Thinking about morals” is what differentiates “us” from “them,” hopefully. And no, the American flag was indeed a “light unto the nations” symbol for us. It was not at all “a symbol of toughness” etc. – quite the opposite. We, existing under Communism, thought of the West as pampered, soft-bodied, and incapable of real fighting. We firmly knew – so we were taught – that it was the Soviet Union, virtually all by itself, that defeated Nazis, while the West fought half-heartedly (after all, the Germans were already on the run in 1944). The US and its flag were symbols of freedom, nonetheless, the opposite to the hated regime. Israel is not really fighting “for the right to be a Westernized, Jewish state”: it is a Jewish state (“Westernized” may not be such an attractive goal nowadays) and cannot be any other. It is fighting for survival, as it has throughout its history. There would be no Israel, a real miracle, or the Jews, for that matter, if not for Judaism. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 29, 2024 Michael, I am not against religion. I am fiercely Roman Catholic, and much of my poetry touches upon religious matters. What I object to is what “Religion” has become in the hands of the spreading plague that we can call left-liberalism or cultural Marxism. I put “Religion” in quotes because this particular type is false and poisonous. It is a cult of surrender, of compromise, of supine acceptance of our cultural degradation. And this fake “Religion” is spreading like wildfire, even among those idiots in Israel who are screaming that Netanyahu should surrender to Hamas just so that they can get their precious relatives back. This kind of “Religion” is sentiment, feeling, emotional weakness, loss of nerve, gutlessness, and an utterly brain-dead, suicidal humanitarianism. Why do I refuse to talk with clergymen of ANY denominations today? Whether they are Catholic priests, or Protestant ministers, or Jewish rabbis, or pagan gurus or shamans, they are all INFECTED with this fake “Religion” of spineless brotherly love! They live in a dream-world of fantasy and hallucination about how nice it would be if we all just would get along with each other. One good thing about October 7 is this: It has shown us that the world is still a savage place, and that one can only answer savagery with savagery if one really wants to save one’s culture and race. Everything else is just childish chin-music, even if you can find scriptural quotes to back it up. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 29, 2024 Joseph, as I am no Christian, let alone Catholic, I cannot object to your conclusion regarding what “religion” has become. I am also no rabbi, needless to say, but I know that your conclusion does not apply to Judaism – only to the marginal variety of it that has become very visible here, in the US, unconnected to actual Judaism and, even more so, to Israel. I would also object to your depoliticizing religion, Catholicism in particular, if I may. I don’t think you could hold me guilty for complying with Godwin’s law if I remind you of the Reichskonkordat, which removed Catholicism’s moral role from the German politics. There is no substitute to religion in morality, which inevitably influences politics. Devaluing, let alone canceling, its role in forming public opinion leaves our culture devoid of its foundation and open for destruction. This is not about “brotherly love.” This is about opposing evil. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 29, 2024 Who’s depoliticizing religion? All I’m saying is that there is a real religion, but it is rapidly being replaced by a fake religion of left-liberal and cultural Marxist beliefs, prejudices, and attitudes I don’t think we should discuss this any further, since you seem to be unable to resist the impulse to insult your gentile friends, even when they have expressed powerful support for Israel in this very dangerous time. Michael Vanyukov March 29, 2024 Joseph, that was a pretty fast shift from having no disagreements to shutting the discussion up. You will or won’t respond to this, but I fail to see how I insulted you or any of the gentile friends, especially regrettable as I truly appreciate your support for Israel. If you don’t mind, do me a big favor and tell me where I did. Then I will correct myself, as I’ve never intended that. That said, how are you not depoliticizing religion when you say, “when talking about political or military matters, any mention of religious ideas is a harmful distraction”? That’s exactly what I referred to. Shabbat shalom. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 29, 2024 If you insist, I’m fed up with your snide anti-Catholic remarks, your contemptuous attitude towards the European peoples, your rejection of the word “Westernized” to describe Israelis (who are in fact deeply Westernized), and your glib insult about a Concordat from 1933 about which you have only a superficial knowledge. As for questions of Realpolitik and military matters, I believe that they must be handled solely with the goal of protecting ourselves and our race and our culture. Nothing else. I am not depoliticizing religion. I am saying that Realpolitik and military matters don ‘t follow rules taken out of the Bible. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 30, 2024 Joseph, I do insist. I regret that the argument, which was supposed to focus on the poem, has come to unseemly rhetoric. Our substantive disagreements are indeed minimal. You slandered me. It is you, not I, who “attacked” the Europeans. It is you who called them, derisively, “stupid, sobbing, oversentimental Europeans,” and that is the first mention of Europeans in this thread, which you made in no connection with the poem discussed. I only responded to you in a similar manner, referring to exactly the same group you had characterized, objecting to your “sentimental” but adding “lazy.” Somehow that became MY attack, not yours, “broad and unfair,” suddenly on all “the European peoples” whom I never mentioned. I have made no anti-Catholic remark either, “snide” or not. It is you who introduced your “fierce” Catholicism into the discussion, while arguing with the Bible as if it was myself and not the prophet who wrote his words. I did not characterize Catholicism in any manner whatsoever, let alone snidely. Your disparaging my history knowledge, an intentional denigration, is as disconnected from reality and from what I said as the rest of your unwarranted statements. The Reichskonkordat did exactly what I said. If you consider that insulting, blame history and Pacelli. If your opinion differs, state it. The stridency of your tone is not justified. I don’t know which “our race” exactly you are protecting and how (the connotations to that terminology are mostly ugly), but denying the moral aspect to the military actions—“rules taken from the Bible”—is unrealistic to our/Western-type militaries, despite the German oh-so-popular misnomer Realpolitik. To be sure, those rules have to be followed especially stringently by the IDF, ever judged on the double standard. Modern Israel never needed to be “Westernized,” condescending as that sounds: it was founded, governed, and developed by Western people. Perhaps of the wrong “race.” Joseph S. Salemi March 30, 2024 Look, Michael — this is not the season for fighting, but if you want a fight I’ll give you one. Perhaps we can avoid it by simple discussion. I brought up the fact that many Europeans (not all) are strangling from an imposed sentimentalism — one has been taught to them since childhood by left-liberal and crypto-Communist teachers. I have said this before, in other discussion thread here. They suffer from elephantiasis of the Categorical Imperative, and they think with their tear ducts. Some of them — thank God — are fighting back. You denied this, and said that they were “lazy,” and then you added “Summing up in evil.” That is a sweeping judgment, even though had previously said that you did not wish to tar all Europeans with one brush. You seem to have a problem with the words “Western” and “Westernized,” as if they cannot be rightly attached to Jews, even though many Jews today have strongly Western heritages and backgrounds, both in cultural habits and bloodlines. That happens to be the very same argument of Nazi ideology — namely, that the Jews “do not belong in the West,” and cannot be “accepted as genuine members of Western civilization.” Is that your belief? Are you in agreement with Heinrich Himmler? The Vatican’s Concordat of 1933 with Germany was one of many such agreements made over the course of history between the Church and various states. They are drawn up to protect and guarantee the rights of the Church vis-a-vis secular power, and to create a modus vivendi that avoids conflict. The Concordat of 1929 between the Church and the Fascist Italy was done for such a reason, and remains basically in force today. These Concordats are not done for “moral” reasons, but for real-world advantage. Germany had a very long history of anti-Catholicism, and it broke out several times, in Prussia before the union of 1870, and in Imperial Germany under Bismarck’s Kulturkampf. The Catholic Church had to be aware at all times of her position, and how to protect herself from persecution, confiscation, and despoliation. Pacelli’s purpose (and the Vatican’s) in 1933 was to make the best of a bad situation. Hitler’s political victory rendered it clear to anyone with perception that any non-Nazi party would be banned, and in any case, the Catholic Zentrum Party was already on its last legs. The Concordat’s aim was to trade off political influence (which the Church really no longer had) and make a deal for the protection of Catholic schools, hospitals, religious orders, and social organizations from Nazi interference. Frankly, it was the very best agreement that could be made under the circumstances. By 1933 there wasn’t any institution in Germany (secular or religious) that was in a position to fight with the Nazis. So it is unfair and anti-Catholic of you to bring up this agreement now as a reproach to me or to anyone in the Catholic Church. We did what was best for us in a bad situation, and did not anticipate that Hitler’s regime would essentially disregard the Concordat and harass us anyway. It may have been a mistake in retrospect, but in fact it was a wise move in 1933. My race is the European race, and I do not consider the word “race” to be ugly in any way. It is purely a shorthand description that everyone understands, and never had a problem with until the imbecilities of liberalism started to poison us. I thought you would be immune to this anti-racial-identity con-game. Realpolitik is VERY real. And so is military action. Ask any combat field officer on this planet if he would willingly allow interference from religious parties in how he decides on tactics. Mike Bryant March 30, 2024 Every single country suffers under the carefully preserved delusion that their culture, their needs and their history is important to their leaders. Nothing could be further from the truth. We the people do not control who our leaders are OR what they do. We simply pay the tab. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 30, 2024 Mike, “we” may not control things as the leaders do, but that does not really lift responsibility for one’s own choices, whatever those leaders may think of them. Banally, what matters is what is important to you, not to the leaders. Reply Mike Bryant March 30, 2024 I am talking about all the citizens who have lost their vote through no fault of their own. Michael Vanyukov March 30, 2024 Season or not, Joseph, it was not I who stooped to personal attacks and slander. You think your maligning Europeans is better than mine, and I should keep to the conclusions only you can arrive to? Good luck with attempting to censor and, how they call it now, “cancel.” I do think that the European (or Democrat, or Communist) attitude to Israel sums up to evil. You are free to maintain that they are “stupid, sobbing, oversentimental,” with no outcome of evil – it’s your business, but I have tarred “all” the Europeans with one brush no more than you have. Please own it, unless your standard is double. You are filling your text with strawmen. I’ve never had a problem with the word “Western,” which I have used myself, including my previous post. My problem was, again, with your condescending “Westernized” as applied to Israel’s alleged goals. Your talk about “many Jews” and their “bloodlines,” whatever that means, with “strongly Western heritages and backgrounds” is supposed to deal with the Nazi constructs – on the very same racialist grounds. How about those Jews that are not of those “bloodlines” – are they in need to be “Westernized”? Let me assure you as a geneticist: there is no “European race,” which you fight for with empty verbiage. It has foundation neither in biology nor in culture – only in the divide et impera politics of totalitarians, from Nazis to Communists to “Democrats.” It is the racial identity game that is “con,” and you are playing it just as some Ibram X. Kendi or another race-baiter. It is ugly not only by supplying false identities, but also because of its ugly history and the present. It is unconscionable of you to ascribe to me Nazi thoughts, insinuating that I am in agreement with Himmler, in a statement with the lame disguise of a question mark, while knowing that I am Jewish. It is you who keeps talking about the nonexistent “European *race*,” to which no Jew would consider him/herself belonging. Not with the history of the Europeans’ treatment of the Jews and with the Jews’ being of just about all known races. Your racialist fight is of no concern of mine, just like Kendi’s or DEI’s are not. The Jews could not care less whether they are “accepted as genuine members of Western civilization” or not, whether it’s you or Nazis who cogitate on that. We have more pressing problems. As to Realpolitik, you again respond to your own thoughts, not mine. I disagree with your whitewashing of the Concordat, which, again, addresses no argument of mine. Pacelli was more afraid of Communists than he was of Nazis, but there would be no Concordat if the Church were already impotent, as you describe, and the Nazis did not need its removal from politics. It was initiated by the Nazis, so they, unlike you, definitely did not consider the Church and the Center Party insignificant in 1933. Yes, the 20 mln German Catholics (then 40% of the German population) obtained Nazi protection from Nazi thugs (even though Pacelli could never be sure of that while he did keep his end of the deal), but at the price of the Nazis’ getting rid of their strong opposition, and the Church disbanded powerful anti-Nazi and youth Catholic organizations. The Church and the Catholic clergy could no longer speak on political matters and be members of political parties. I did not “reproach” you (what do you have to do with that history?) – I only reminded you of the rather infamous consequences of the removal of the Church’s moral voice from the political discourse, which you consider a “wise move” anyway, relevant because you advocated for the same thing. How is that a reproach if you have no problem with and approve that? If it is “anti-Catholic” to mention the relevant Catholic history, it is the history that is anti-Catholic. Tellingly, you did not consider it anti-Jewish to mention “the Jewish leader of a Jewish-Nationalist-German organization that supported the Nazis” (a marginal group of idiots who were against the “Marxist Jews” and were disbanded by the Nazis in two years after coming to power) and calling Jewish Democrats his “heirs.” Bad as those Democrats are – and I’ve called some of them quislings, – that is a gross and indeed “sweeping judgment,” bordering on Jew-hate. Again, you are in the echo chamber with yourself, with your baseless accusations, slander, and uncalled-for rudeness. Any combat officer from a civilized country will always consider the moral, i.e., religion-derived, implications of his actions, up to disobeying an order if he considers it immoral. And a failure to disobey an immoral order will be grounds to a court action. “Interference from religious parties” in military actions is a straw man, but the civilian leaders, who are superior to the military command, may well be, and have been, strongly religious. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 31, 2024 Good Lord, you really are in a dream world, aren’t you? Israel is now fighting for its life precisely BECAUSE it is perceived as a Western outpost that is colonizing a non-Western territory. That is why you are hated and attacked. You are in the very same position as the Crusader kingdoms and principalities of the medieval period. You think your enemies give a damn about any mythic scriptural claims to Palestine that you might make? Don’t make me laugh! They would be attacking you if you were worshipers of Zeus or Isis, or if you were agnostic freethinkers. You are intruders there, by right of military conquest, just as we Americans are here as intruders by right of military conquest. Get used to it, and stop moralizing. And here I am, making a very stout defense of Israeli actions in Gaza, and of the Israeli right to defend itself as an outpost of Western civilization, and you presume to give me arguments about every little thing if it doesn’t suit your parochial preferences? I’m speaking up strongly and openly in defense of Israel, and you have the nerve to accuse me of “Jew-hate”? Yes, you do think like Heinrich Himmler if you say that the Jews are not a part of Western Civilization, and have nothing to do with Europe. That is simon-pure Nazi ideology. No question mark. Wake up, pal. Right now, you need all the friends you can get. Protesting that you are not Western isn’t going to cut any ice with Hamas. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 31, 2024 Not only have I NOT said that “the Jews are not a part of Western Civilization” or “are not Western”- I said the exact opposite: “Israel never needed to be “Westernized,” condescending as that sounds: it was founded, governed, and developed by Western people. ” Israel is not fighting for the goal you invented, “the right to be a Westernized, Jewish state” – it is both, cannot be any different, and is fighting for its survival, as would any country that has been attacked by murderous savages. You are misled by your focus on the “European race,” which led you to the vile “Himmler” statement you have doubled down on. It is that “race” that the Jews have nothing to do with, nor does anybody, if only because it does not exist. Not only because there is no such race in any scientific nomenclature but because “race” in general has no scientific validity as a construct, which serves only to divide society to better control it. With your fixation on “race,” seemingly as strong as Himmler’s, you should read the Pius XI 1937 encyclical that enraged the Nazis, “Mit brennender Sorge” – it talks about how that focus is idolatrous. Not my words – the pope’s. He did not consider the issue “parochial.” Arabs have attacked Israel not because it is “an outpost of Western civilization.” They have because it is a Jewish state in the midst of the Muslim sea. The have attacked the Jews throughout the Muslim world, where now there are no Jews remaining to speak of, and led bloody pogroms long before Israel the state. Some were organized by Amin al Husayini, the Grand Mufti, appointed by the British Mandatory administration, later famous for recruiting Muslim battalions for Waffen SS, conversing with Hitler, visiting a concentration camp, and living in Germany throughout the war. The pogroms had the same reason as the pogroms in imperial Russia, in Ukraine, in Germany, and, finally, in the Shoah: Jew-hate. Rooted in the history of Christianity and a scriptural part of Islam, with which you are unfamiliar. No “outposts.” There is no “moralizing” here – just elementary history you either ignore you unaware of. Likely the former, as not fitting your racialist concept of what “Western” means. And please, quit demanding credit for supporting Israel. While appreciated, as I’ve said more than once, it is common decency and common sense to support a democracy against savages. That it is a Jewish democracy is beside the point – it’s no different than if it were a Christian one. Of the “European race.” It is not of “Zeus worshipers” – but I’ve never said that Islam hates the Jews exclusively – it hates everybody and even those who differ in their Islamic views within Islam, as predicted about Ishmael from whom it derives its heritage. Nonetheless, Israel is the Jewish state and is hated because of that, not because it’s an “outpost.” The “outpost” reasoning is convenient to those, the world rulers included, who do not want to deal with the fact that Islam, Bush’s “religion of peace,” is a totalitarian ideology with the stated scriptural goal of world domination and – specifically – the genocide of the Jews. I must be “parochial” to note that, I guess. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 31, 2024 Fine. Believe whatever fantasies you like. They seem to comfort you. But don’t be surprised when the real world bites you on the ass, as happened on October 7. Michael Vanyukov March 31, 2024 You make no sense, have no notion of civilized discussion, but your words speak for themselves. Vile. Reply Joseph S. Salemi March 31, 2024 Yaaawn….. And you are a flaming fanatic. Reply Brian A. Yapko March 31, 2024 Michael and Joe, I have followed your spirited exchange of ideas regarding Israel and why Muslims hate it so. I think you both make good points, Joe’s focus is on political and geographic realism and Michael’s is on the existential threat Jews face from Hamas and the injustice of the rise of global antisemitism. I have no interest in arguing with anyone here and hope to offer some reconciliatory thoughts as well as some additional relevant data. I just have three things I want to say: My first comments are addressed to Michael: this is not a war that can be fought successfully on theological grounds unless the Jewish people are literally relying on divine intervention. This does not mean to stop praying, but it means we have to also understand the political currents at play here. Joe’s points about how Muslims hate Israel because of perceiving it as a Western outpost seems insightful to me. This is not to say that your point about how Muslims hate Jews is not also insightful, but the leftist “zeitgeist” right now hates Israelis as white colonizers, no matter how inaccurate this is. As between the varying “hate-factors” identified by Joe and you, I don’t see a reason to choose one source of hate over another. Moreover, I’ve learned many lessons in life about distinguishing between our friends and our enemies. I think Joe has demonstrated his support for Israel unambiguously and vigorously. I personally am deeply grateful for that and think it’s time to recognize that different people may support Israel for different reasons. He has very astutely explained the psychology of those who hate Israel and he has offered a deep realpolitik discussion regarding what is at stake here – not only the survival of the Jewish people but Western civilization. Perhaps the three of us are not completely aligned, but we are on the same side here. Let us be grateful for that fact. My second point to both of you is about theology. We know what the Bible says. I agree with Joe that in this context, reliance on the Bible is not a winning argument. That, at least, is how I take Joe’s comments about Zeus, etc. But that being said, when the theology is removed a vacuum is created because we are actually dealing with competing theologies: Muslim antipathy for Jews is indeed theological and not merely a social-justice hatred for the West. There is a deep-rooted psychology at play of those who gladly go to their deaths as martyrs if they can kill Jews. They actually believe they’re headed for Paradise. Gaza elementary schools teach math this way : “If five freedom fighters are attacked by pig-Jew infidels and one of the freedom fighters is martyred, how many are left?” This goes far beyond hatred of Western Culture. It is terrifying religious fervor. If the Muslims are willing to die for a Jew-free theocracy how does one fight that other than with competing theology? Sure one (perhaps should) divorce the entire argument from theology, whether Jewish or Muslim. But I think the Koran-citing Jew-haters will have something to say about it. My third comment is directed to Joe. Because this is a teaching site and has many unschooled readers who may not have the inclination to do the research, as well as some malign readers who have a penchant for cherry-picking and twisting arguments to suit their own agendas, I hope you won’t mind if I respond to your comment about Israel as a Middle East corollary to the United States – in particular your describing it as land acquired by virtue of conquest. This has a narrow realm of validity if you’re referring to the War of Independence in which Israel did not conquer so much as fight to implement the United Nations partition of British Palestine. It has a larger realm of validity if you’re referring to the West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza acquired by Israel in the Six Day War when Israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria and Jordan who expected to eliminate Israel once and for all but, to everyone’s surprise, attacked and lost. But this “conquest” paradigm collapses if it is meant to describe the Jews overall as a colonizing population of foreigners. An uninterrupted, continuous Jewish presence in Israel is archaeologically documented going back to at least 800 B.C. I wrote an article about this with a summary of exemplar artifacts and other objects which presents objective, scientific verification of an uninterrupted Jewish presence for at least 2800 years. I wrote this article precisely so that I could call out those who think Jews are not indigenous to be science-deniers. It was a frequent misconception held by many in the West for many years that all Jews were exiled from Israel shortly after the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. However, the archaeological record, the documentary record, even the cemeteries demonstrate that there has never been a time in all that history when there wasn’t some Jewish presence in the Holy Land, even under the Byzantines, the Muslim caliphates and the Ottomans. Jews were often a minority, to be sure. But a robust one. If you haven’t already seen it, you might find this article I wrote of some interest: https://www.sfmew.org/jews-are-the-indigenous-people-of-the-holy-land/ The town of Peki’in mentioned in my article is of particular interest because when the Romans kicked the Jews out, those Jews incontrovertibly stayed. But many others did as well, as is shown by graves and documents. There is not one year in the recorded history of Israel going back to the Kingdom of David that Israel has not known Jews. Although leftists and the woke regard Jews as colonizers, Jews are the indigenous people of Israel. There is a reason why Zionism did not focus on any spot in the world where they could have settled. Madagascar? Siberia? Rhodesia? Guyana? Only Israel would do. There was already an uninterrupted Jewish presence there with deep historical, physical and cultural roots (not to mention theological ones.) Zionist Jews were simply coming home. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 31, 2024 Dear Brian, my argument is not theological. It is historical. There is no theology in the fact that the Jewish patrimony in the Land of Israel is based not only on the uninterrupted history of residing there but on Judaism: without it, not only would there be no Israel but that history and Jews themselves would not exist. As Max Dimont noted, in rabbinical Judaism, G-d became portable, allowing continued Jewish existence far beyond and long after all expulsions and travels. There is no theology either – at least, not mine – in the fact that hate for Israel is basically Jew-hate. While its roots are in both Christian history (the Orthodox churches have not even abandoned the deicide accusation, and some Catholic branches, like that of Mel Gibson’s, have not either), and in Islam, in which it is scriptural and not reinterpretable, hate is hate. It is an emotion that the human limbic system produces when not controlled by the cortex. Which is where morality resides. Sort of what Joseph’s did, unprovoked, with his vile accusations. The problem with Muslim scriptural Jew-hate is that it would not allow reconciliation with a Jewish state in any shape or form, in any borders, on what they perceive as a “Muslim land.” For Islam, it does not matter for how long the Jews have lived in the Land – what has been under Muslim dominion constitutes an inviolable Muslim trust, wakf, to be recaptured if “lost.” Let alone the land that is within the “Muslim” lands, like a thorn in the side. For Israel, that is thus not a land dispute but an existential issue. If Israel has not demonstrated and continued to show to the surrounding countries that attacking it would be futile, no peace agreement with them would hold for a moment. I’ll leave it to your imagination what the world’s reaction would be to Israel’s destruction, but Islam’s Jew-hate is of no concern to the world, and Israel can really count only on herself, just as Menachem Begin alluded to when replying to Biden’s 1982 vintage threats to withdraw aid. Which is what the poem is about. There is a useful tool called the parsimony principle, aka Occam’s Razor. Applied to this discussion, there is no need to invoke a new, additional, explanation for a phenomenon when the old one fits perfectly and the phenomenon has not changed. There is no need to invent the “outpost of Western civilization” as the explanation of the pogrom savagery that has had a millennia-old history. The Arab rapists and murderers cared about “Western civilization” on 10/7 as much as did Khmielnicki’s cossacks in 1648, York’s Englishmen in 1140, or Alexandria Greeks in year 40. Again, the only reason why that “outpost” explanation has been invented is to obfuscate Islam’s intrinsic Jew-hate, dehumanizing Jews on “religious” grounds just as Nazism did on “humanitarian” grounds, to protect the “European…”, oops, German “race.” Reply Brian A. Yapko March 31, 2024 Michael, I’m sorry I got into this discussion. You’re really good at dismissing important insights about what’s happening that don’t contribute or corroborate your narrative. Boy, does this feel familiar. I’m done. Reply Joshua C. Frank March 31, 2024 I agree. This kind of thing is why I’ve stopped participating in these debates and started saving it all for the poems, like boxers who only fight in the ring. Reply Michael Vanyukov March 31, 2024 It is amazing to me that nothing I’ve written receives a direct adequate.response—only personal attributions having nothing to do with the argument’s substance. I am not used to that in my work. Bowing out too. Reply Michael Vanyukov April 5, 2024 @Lannie David Brockstein Dear Lannie, I appreciate your kind words and understanding. Murray is really one of the precious few in the West, especially in the UK, who are aware of the scale of deception the world is happy to engage in slandering Israel and demanding from it what has never been demanded of anybody under a genocidal attack. As it has happened before, besides the sheer inhumanity of the savages Israel has to deal with that is ignored, too many people do not understand that Israel, today’s collective Jew, is the canary in the mine, a barrier to the spread of a murderous ideology, and that when somebody defends Israel, it’s for one own’s sake, not a favor to Israel or the Jews. Reply Mia April 5, 2024 Dear Michael and Lannie I am going to have another go at discussing some points that both of you highlight. I hope that we still will continue to communicate Michael. Lannie you write about a police officer and the swastika incident in your comment, April 5th We in Britain have watched with disbelief not only that but also the case of a woman who took a knife to a painting of Lord Balfour and then went on tv to talk about it. If I were to do the same to protest the Turkish invasion of my country I have no doubt that I would be arrested and charged. Not that I would do the same of course. Michael, I read the Times of Israel and have read some of your articles. In one you write about how two of your relatives were helped by a Ukrainian to escape Ukraine. There are other examples that I know of where a mayor and a Greek orthodox priest are ranked amongst the righteous of the nations because when they were told by the Germans to make a list of all Jews on the island they did so , but the list had two names only, their own. The villagers did their best to hide and help those they knew flee. Now you might say, yes , but even with the example of Anne Frank where people risked their lives, it still does not mean that Europe does not hate the Jews. What are a few examples when there was a holocaust, you might say. Even if millions of Europeans died fighting Hitler. As far as you are concerned Michael Europeans hate the Jews. But yet you can take one incident, and a few others Lannie , vis a vis, a tired and overworked pc as proof laziness and stupidity. Yes there is stupidity but the stupidity is to do with all the western governments. why are they so stupid? well your guess is as good as mine. In your comment Michael, where you state that Europeans love their siestas and so need muslim labor, you really have no idea how that comes across. Do you think the beauty that is Europe was built by muslims? Do you know of any muslim country that is more industrious than Europe? I believe that Israel is not the same today because of the industry of Jewish people. Pre 1948 it was nothing at all. So to almost make muslims as industrious in your evident distaste of Europeans is grating. it is Europe and the USA that has helped to bring Israel back. It is their support that it relies on. So you must see that balance in all our judgements is key. I write this in the spirit of friendship and love for Israel , Judaism and the Jewish people. I believe you should be working towards enhancing support and not always focusing on the negative. Yours faithfully Mia ps, it has occurred to me that Christianity was necessary for the recreation of Israel. Without so many christian bible readers no one would have known that the place rightly belongs to the Jews. So that is one example of what I mean by a positive. Dear Michael , please believe that this is not personal or against you, there is too much at stake to worry about. Reply Michael Vanyukov April 5, 2024 Dear Mia, while I am glad you continue to be engaged in this conversation, I am concerned too. The reason is that you continue to misinterpret the common generic term, “Europeans,” as covering “the Europeans,” the entirety of them. As I have already said above, in my comment of March 28, that is not the case. I will repeat it: “It is a truism that there is a great variation in the opinions and attitudes – as a geneticist, I am quite aware of that. It is a common shorthand – just as you can talk about “Americans” when considering policies of the current government in relation to, say, Israel, without having to say every time that, likely, more than half of Americans disagree with the Democrat policies.” Again, “Europeans” were not introduced in this thread by me, it was not I who called “Europeans” stupid, and the quality of laziness is as generalizable to the entirety of Europeans (or any other nation) as that they are “sobbing.” In fact, Mia, if you read attentively, I did not call Europeans anything at all. I called nobody “stupid” and “lazy.” I named two *qualities*, stupidity and laziness, not any particular people or nation, let alone all of Europe’s population, that may be responsible for the FACT that Europe – obviously, its *governments* (which in democracies people choose, however) – has allowed itself to be flooded by those foreigners who do not appreciate the beauty and the culture of Europe. Nor do they appreciate Christianity, while neither Christianity nor Islam would exist without Judaism. Coming from Europe myself and raised in a European culture, I do not need to be reminded how much humanity owes it – but that changes nothing in the fact that Europe has imported Muslim labor and refugees – to now watch “in disbelief” the consequences of Islamic conquest without shots fired. Just an occasional terror act, a murder of a Jew, an artist, a Royal guard, a journalist, a string of rapes of little girls, another barbaric action with no end, and adjusting policies toward Israel to Muslim demands and constituency. You are right that Europe and America have helped Israel – it would be absurd to deny. There would also be no Israel without European antisemitism. And the Israeli population would be much smaller without its half that was brought in by the refugees from the antisemitic Muslim countries. It is also the Soviet Union that helped Israel to both become a state and defend itself from the Arab aggression – but, sorry, I do not feel any gratitude to Stalin, who died just before his plan to exterminate the Soviet Jews was to be executed. Motives and reasons are important, won’t you say?. I am glad you read my articles. You can find more, if interested, at https://unchartedforest.blogspot.com/, https://unchartedforest.substack.com/, https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/author/michael-vanyukov/, https://www.utimes.pitt.edu/news/letter-editor-racial-0, and https://sites.pitt.edu/~mmv/israel.htm~. It was three of my relatives – my grandma, my aunt, and my mom – who were helped by the Ukrainian. So you can include me among them. Reading what I write without prejudice, you cannot accuse me of bias toward Europeans, let alone “distaste of Europeans” – only of realism. Every innocent death is tragic, but you are mistaken saying that “millions of Europeans died fighting Hitler.” That is, unless you include 20 mln. of the Soviet citizens (11 mln if counting only the military losses) and 3.5 mln of Nazi Germans, which I don’t think you do. Europe’s losses fighting Nazis were less than or about a million, the largest in Yugoslavia, where Serbs, Jews, an Gypsies were murdered by Nazis and Croats, Nazis’ allies. Not by all “the Croats,” note that – but Croats, while Tito, who led resistance to Nazis, was a Croat. Anyway, I hope, you get my point by now. I am happy that you stand for Israel. So should any human with knowledge, heart, and conscience. Glad to have you as a friend. My best wishes to you. Reply Mia April 7, 2024 Dear Michael thank you for your kind reply. May I relate something that happened yesterday. I was talking with a friend who said to me, “Isn’t it terrible what is happening in Gaza?” etc I thought for a moment and replied, “Yes, but do you know that Israel is surrounded by 22 muslim countries who all went to drive Jews out. From the river to the sea means they want that little bit of land that belongs to Israel. What can they do. They either fight or face being killed or driven out” She replied ’22 countries , really? I did not know it was that many’ so the conversation turned. I only knew the exact number because of our discussions! Somehow saying 22 had more impact that just saying many. I try to be a friend and I think I really wished for you to be a friend and hence my debates. Now I am glad we persevered best wishes in these very difficult times Mia Michael Vanyukov April 7, 2024 @Mia. Thank you, Mia, for that. Your encounter is a proof that, indeed, heart and conscience, which your friend likely possesses, are not enough for making judgment. Knowledge is also critical. Next time you see that friend of yours, you could tell her that those 22 you mentioned are only *Arab* countries, which, of course, are all Muslim and all anti-Israel, despite Egypt’s and Jordan’s peace agreements and the Abraham Accords (“normalization” with UAE, Bahrain, and Sudan). That number, 22, is unique: no other nation has anything close. The *Muslim* world consists of more like 50 countries, and that is not counting countries like India, where there are 200 mln Muslims. By themselves those numbers would not mean much. For the topic we discuss, however, they are important: scriptural Islam is explicitly anti-Christian and anti-Jewish. Considering that Islam prohibits “innovation” (despite the existence of different schools of jurisprudence within each of the main sects; the latter, Sunni and Shi’a, being in a permanent war with each other), what is written as a direct command in the Koran and the sahih (“authentic”) ahadith is not changeable (e.g., Koran 5:51: “O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.” That constitutes the basis of constant reemergence of militant “conservative” or “reformist” (about the same; both promise nothing good to non-Muslims) movements in Islam. One of those ahadith, the so-called Gharqad tree hadith, promises the genocide of all the Jews at the hands of Muslims. It is that hadith that is quoted in the Hamas covenant. Except nobody in the West mentions that this proof of Hamas’s savagery is a mainstream part of Islam. Reply Leave a Reply Cancel ReplyYour email address will not be published.CommentName* Email* Website Δ This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.
Brian A. Yapko March 23, 2024 This is a deeply powerful poem, Michael — one which must not have been easy to write since it describes a terrible loss of innocence. Since World War II and the quite resolve of “never again” it seemed impossible that the overt, proud, aggressive antisemitism that has been unleashed could ever happen. This is especially true in America where Jews were welcomed from the very start of the American Revolution (read about Haym Solomon, arrested by the British as a spy and who personally lent huge sums of money to the fledgling republic without which independence might never have taken place.) Jews have accepted in the U.S. Supreme Court and in Science, created the Broadway musical and the entire film industry. Jews had every reason to believe they were accepted and belonged. As your poem so eloquently observes: “We were wrong.” Who would have dreamed that Times Square and Hollywood Boulevard could become masses of people who approve the slaughter of Jews? The aggressive antisemisitm of our “friends and neighbors” here in the U.S. can never be unseen. Even if there were peace tomorrow and all was well between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs, how can we ever forget a generation of fellow-Americans chanting the genocidal warcry “from the River to the Sea…” and reveling like savages in the destruction of Jewish lives and property. This will affect us for generations to come. It can never be unseen and it has been bridge-burning. I hope the wokesters are happy with the hate they have cemented into our culture. As for Israel itself, despite Biden’s perfidious movements Qatar-wise, it would be even more wrong to now try to negotiate with an enemy whose only negotiation position is “we want 100% of the land and we want you all dead.” Of course having an enemy that is clearly evil makes Israel (and allies with a teenage level or better moral compass) powerful. And as Golda Meir once famously said, “Israel’s secret weapon is that we have nowhere to go.” That is more true now than it has ever been. Thank you for the sad but powerful and thought-provoking read. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Brian, thank you so very much for your understanding everything. It’s a horrible heartache to see what’s going on. Even worse is that it is as expected. Happy Purim. חג פורים שמח Reply
Reid McGrath March 23, 2024 What is the meaning behind writing God G-d? I’ve seen this before. I’m just ignorant and curious. Thanks. Reply
Brian A. Yapko March 23, 2024 Reid, as I understand it Orthodox Jews will not write out the word “God” because they believe that to do so is a form of taking the Lord’s name in vain. This is consistent with using the term “Adonai” in the Bible which means “Lord” as a substitution for the unutterably holy name of God. In short, it is a grammatical way of showing respect for our Creator. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Brian, right on! Moreover, when speaking outside of prayer/service, even the “A” word is not pronounced, replaced with “Adoshem” (“shem” being “name”) and the second word of the expression become “EloKeinu” (“k” instead of “h”).
Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Reid, as you may know, the Jews do not pronounce the Name that is spelled in the Tanakh (the Jewish Bible). Many Orthodox Jews take the English or another non-Hebrew language word that substitutes, in those languages, the ineffable Name with additional respect, not accorded to other words. As a Jew, I respect that custom. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 23, 2024 The anti-semitism that one sees exploding in the current controversy over Gaza is actually a new development, and is not linked to earlier forms. This new anti-semitism is a pure product of left-liberal attitudes and beliefs. It is the up-to-date anti-semitism of the left-liberal elites in academia, government, journalism, and the mass media. Left-liberalism is a religion, and religions have sacred, unquestionable dogmas. One of them is the superiority of “victims” over “oppressors,” and the supreme superiority of non-whites over whites. Another is the absolute illegitimacy of any forceful response by Western nations and peoples against the depredations or attacks of non-Western ones. For this reason, the atrocities of October 7 were openly celebrated by left-liberals, and the severe response of Israel to those atrocities is causing massive outrage and world-wide moral whining. Left-liberals cannot bear it when their religious ordinances are violated. Moreover, left-liberals have a protective attitudes towards non-Western militants and terrorists. The fact that the IDF is systematically exterminating Hamas in Gaza sends them into a real religious rage. This explains the hysterical screams for a “cease-fire” at all costs. Thank God for Netanyahu. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Joseph, you are right, as usual. It took some effort for the KGB and its brotherly communist agencies to create a pitiful tiny “Palestinian” nation out of an enormous mass of Arabs, from whom they do not differ, coming from Arabia and the rest of the “Arab” world. The goal of the antisemitic Soviet Union was to undermine the West’s position in the area, while enjoying the transformation of Israel—in the willing world’s perception—from the small, brave, and admirable David into a huge and ugly Goliath. The Soviet Union is no more but the ruse is maintained. The “Biden” administration is now directly threatening Israel, to force it to let Hamas survive. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 23, 2024 Yes, I see your point. Biden’s only interest is in the 2024 election. He does not give a damn about Gaza, but only about the Moslem vote in the key state of Michigan. This is also why certain normally anti-Israeli types (like the hillbilly fake translator) are now tongue-tied, and have not uttered a word about October 7 and the intense struggle that has followed it. They know that a major split is going on in the Democrat Party, and they are terrified that anything they might say could contribute to a 2024 defeat.
Brian A. Yapko March 23, 2024 This is extremely insightful, Joe. I had long wondered about the strange disconnect today’s antisemitism and older forms of it and whether acceptance had been a lie. I can see that this Hamas-loving antisemitism is an entirely new phenomenon cobbled together out of DEI, CRT and other vile but now-ubiquitous orthodoxies. The funny thing is, I doubt that 90% of those advocating for cease-fire and weeping for the Palestinian Arabs actually gives a rat’s ass. If they authentically cared about life, they would be screaming their heads off about Yemen, Syria and Tibet. But when they have a chance to attack Jewish targets, the lure is irresistable. The religion paradigm you present is powerful and completely accurate. I know a ridiculous number of Jewish Democrats who do not understand the need to pivot. When presented with the choice of deciding whether Israel is right or official Democratic policy, they will go with the Democrats every single time. Every. Single. Time. It’s like Stockholm Syndrome. And so of course they start criticizing Israel because THE PARTY tells them to and they abdicate the responsibility of thinking for themselves, utterly content to be gaslighted. They’ll go to their early terror-induced graves with an epitaph that says “he/she was a good Democrat.” They’re like those good German Jews who refused to leave Nazi Germany in the mid-1930s when they still had the chance because, gosh darn it, they were Germans first. Not that Hitler agreed with them. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 23, 2024 I am reminded of Max Naumann, the Jewish leader of a Jewish-Nationalist-German organization that supported the Nazis, and who spoke disparagingly of “filthy, caftan-wearing, Polish shtetl Jews” who had to be kept out of Germany. Today, Jewish Democrats who are furiously anti-Israeli are the heirs of Herr Naumann. Reply
Margaret Coats March 23, 2024 A strong and unified poem, Michael, from “It turns out we’ve always been wrong” to “We know what to do to be right.” The sad disillusionment is necessary because (from within the poem), “hate is stewing.” Love and friendship are in fact acts of the will that need to be repeated in order to strengthen them, but hate can be an unthinking response to circumstances. It can grow and spread easily. I agree with Joseph Salemi that current antisemitism worldwide is a product of newer attitudes, and it is therefore surprising in many ways. Understanding it as a product of godless, left-liberal religion is valuable. Nevertheless, there are basic, older elements of hate within it, that make the stew more potent. That’s one of your points, Michael, in this assertive poem. As always, this calls for vigilance and fortitude–lessons recently re-learned. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Margaret, thank you for your kind words. All true, except I doubt that any of those attitudes are particularly new. One of the components of the Passover Seder, soon to be celebrated, in the Haggadah, its liturgical text, are words, “It is not only one that has risen up against us to destroy us. Rather, in every generation, they rise against us to annihilate us.” It is thus not really surprising – not to the Jews. What may seem relatively new is the neo-Bolshevik progressives’, the intelligentsia’s, openly joining militant Islam and traditional antisemites in Jew-hate. They no longer even pretends to be “anti-Zionists” – that fig list on antisemitism was invented in the Soviet Union, and everybody understood what it meant when “Zionists” were condemned in “Pravda.” The KGB formed “The Anti-Zionist Committee” that consisted of some celebrity establishment Jews – the rest of the Jewry called them “The Antisemitic Committee” – they were as absurd as Naumann Joe mentioned. So it only seems new: antisemitism has always been part of the Marxian worldview, G-dless by definition. If Stalin did not croak on Purim 71 years ago, – today is Purim too – there would be no Jews in the USSR. You are exactly right about vigilance, and it boggles one’s mind indeed how the Democrat Jews can support the party whose vanguard are open Jew-haters and race-baiters, while the old guard, like Schumer, are quislings. Reply
Roy Eugene Peterson March 23, 2024 Such a precious poem as beautifully written as it is haunting! Satan continues to stir the pot of ignorant and helacious hatred becoming more pronounced again as it once was the harbinger of the holocaust. It is up to us to make sure that never happens again! The comments provide excellent amplification of the causes of antisemitism, as well as common morals and decency that are suffering along with it. We have a common foe known as the locked mind leftist liberal cabal! Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 23, 2024 Dear Roy, your encouragement is precious to me. I agree with every word. My concern, mildly put, is that those trends grow precipitously, and, as before, there is no adequate resistance to them. In fact, so many of those who are supposed to resist, those educated and knowing history, have joined the mob. The line dividing that history and our time has become hair-thin. Reply
Warren Bonham March 24, 2024 “Never again” caught on for a while but now antisemites no longer feel the need to hide. They’ve always found refuge at the UN but now are increasingly lauded in elite academic, cultural and political circles. Somehow “knowing what to do to be right” doesn’t seem like enough but I don’t have any other great ideas. Excellent poem! Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 24, 2024 Dear Warren, thank you very much. “Never again,” as many have known, has always been a slogan. Like all slogans, it’s been half-empty, half wishful thinking. At least, Israel has come to understanding that it has to do what needs to be done. Or so I hope. Reply
Susan Jarvis Bryant March 24, 2024 Michael, your words pack a powerful poetic punch. It seems many have a very short memory, which is why history is destined to repeat itself. The sadness of this fact is history is being rewritten and repackaged before our very eyes, fomenting a hatred that is sweeping the globe. Thank you for bringing us some heart-rending clarity through poetry. Your words hold more weight than any current mainstream news article. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 24, 2024 Dear Susan, your words are a great reward to me. What you said about clarity and weight is the main reason I wrote that. Sad as the topic is, I am happy you consider my rendition fitting. Thank you. Reply
Daniel Kemper March 24, 2024 How much did they unfreeze for Iran? 40 billion ? How many other countries do they run this scam on? Ukraine. Iran. Etc Foreign aid out and a huge kickback returns. Iranian money is the biggest, I’m sure. They’re probably threatening to hold up payments and/or expose the scam if Hamas is eliminated. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 24, 2024 Dear Daniel, of course, there would be neither the Ukrainian nor Iranian problem if they were not created by the evil cretins of the current communist admin. I shudder when I think what kind of hold all the savages in the world, from Russia, to Iran, to China, have over “Biden” and his camarilla. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 26, 2024 Well, there you have it, folks. Biden and his left-liberal administration have just betrayed Israel. By allowing this stupid UN demand for a cease-fire to pass; and by not making it dependent in any way on a release of the Israeli hostages; and by telling Israel that it may not attack Rafah without a plan for protecting civilians; and at the same time insisting that Gazan civilians cannot be moved out of the area; the United States has just told its ally that it must stop fighting this war, and give up. And for what? I’ll tell you for what: 1) To win the states of Michigan and Minnesota in the next election. 2) To keep a lot of stupid, sobbing, oversentimental Europeans happy. 3) To prevent the utter destruction of a major terrorist force that left-liberals idolize. 4) To show our subservience to the windbags in the UN. 5) To bring about “regime change” in Israel. It’s time for the Israelis to go it alone. Let them attack Rafah so hard and so violently that the jackasses of World Opinion will be aghast. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 26, 2024 Thank you, Joseph, for reacting so decisively. One thing where I differ a bit is that I don’t believe Europeans are sentimental at all. I think it is, indeed, stupidity – and laziness. Summing up in evil. They’ve flooded their countries with Muslim laborers to solve their need in endless vacations and afternoon siestas and now have to gain those laborers’ votes, which can be done only at Israel’s cost. They hate the Jews anyway – so that is easy for them. Reply
Mia March 26, 2024 Dear Michael I don’t know if you remember but I have commented on your excellent poems before and made my support of Israel very clear. So it is with sadness that I write how I find this comment very upsetting and biased. Call me a sentimental old fool. Even stupid. But lazy or evil!? I do live in the UK originally from Cyprus so not quite European , more Middle Eastern. My half of the island was taken by Turkey by force in 1974. Keeping me and my family out of our homes for fifty years! I heard recently that more and more churches that up to now may have been used to house animals or as warehouses are now turned into mosques. They were not invited so that people could take afternoon siestas.! My grandfather went out in blazing heat to plough, sow and water fields so that his family would survive. Some of the refugees from the north who I know and are now in the south , after leaving everything behind, some are millionaires, purely and simply through hard work. Contrast that with so called Palestinian refugees. Moslems are flooding Europe by design! Moslems are living on the hard work of Europeans, as they are given everything when they arrive when many actual Europeans themselves are struggling. Half of Europe went to fight Hitler. Many died and risked their lives to rid the evil from their midst. To tar everyone with the same brush is a travesty to their memory. Just my humble opinion. But I too believe in truth and justice and feel compelled to add my insights into the debate. PS let us see how many comments I get about my situation. Probably the same as last time , practically zero.
Lannie David Brockstein April 5, 2024 On March 26th, 2024, Michael Vanyukov wrote: >>> “One thing where I differ a bit is that I don’t believe Europeans are sentimental at all. I think it is, indeed, stupidity – and laziness.” ~~~~~ Michael, the same “calls for genocide depend on their context” stupidity has not been limited to Steve Urkel, I mean former Harvard President Claudine Gay. It has spread like an alleged Wuhan lab leak to London’s police department: The Telegraph (March 31st, 2024) – “Met police officer tells woman swastikas need to be “taken in context” during pro-Palestinian march”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0bOMnStG4g Britain’s policy of appeasement in response to the existential threat of the Muslim supremacists and their Woke enablers is so revolting that even Neville Chamberlain must be spinning in his grave. Here in Canada, things are not much better. The same can be said about the USA and the EU. Anybody who is not yet aware of the British author and journalist “Douglas Murray” who is wise to the deceptions of Muslim supremacism and their Woke enablers, and who has reported from Israel many times since October 7th, 2023, should consider viewing his online interviews about Europe, as well as about Israel and what it must “do to be right” (to quote part of the last line in your “We are Wrong” poem). In doing so, their faith in Britain’s best will probably increase. Michael, I enjoy reading your poems, as well as your comments. You shining a light on the situation in Israel and other countries is like a breath of fresh air, in my opinion, as the governments of Europe and North America have not yet stopped being willfully ignorant about what is really going on regarding Iran’s war of aggression against the West; with the Trump administration having been an exception that hopefully shall become the rule. From Lannie.
Joseph S. Salemi March 26, 2024 Dear Mia — I also think that M. Vanyukov’s attack on Europeans was too broad and unfair. Many Europeans are desperately attempting to regain control of their nations. They have done so in Hungary and Italy, and are struggling to do so in France and Germany. Even Sweden is seeing a resurgence of hard-right politics, thank God! Frankly, I wish that Greece had seized Cyprus in the 1960s, when the difficulties with Makarios were getting out of control. And if Greece had been fully backed up by NATO, the Turks wouldn’t have been able to do anything. But unfortunately — then as now — NATO is controlled by a very stupid and unperceptive United States. I agree completely that the displacement of Cypriot Greeks was an injustice, but it was up to the United Kingdom to take a stand and prevent it, since the U.K. was the original occupying power. The United States could do nothing in 1974 because of the political paralysis brought about by liberals who hated Richard Nixon. Yes, Moslems are inundating Europe BY DESIGN, but it is not the design of the ordinary working-class Europeans. It is the design of a diseased E.U. administration that is actively encouraging their arrival, instead of preventing it or fighting against it. Reply
Mia March 26, 2024 Dear Mr Salemi, thank you. I really appreciate your kind reply. I absolutely agree on all points. And you explain it all far more clearly. I have no desire to be argumentative with Michael and want to quote from the poem but in fact the whole poem is relevant They forced us to die and to leave and stay afar those words speak to me because that applies to me too. From the river to the sea seems to include Cyprus also. Interestingly some Jewish authorities believe that in the past Cyprus was included as part of greater Israel . So I will always support Israel as it is the only bit of land that the Jewish people can call home and they were wrongfully displaced from it. It doesn’t mean I ignore the Palestinians but they could have made homes in places such as Jordan and lived in peace. Or Syria or Lebanon, Egypt etc. But they don’t appear to want peace. Greece is also not what it used to be , its borders have shrank dramatically . In fact Turkey is land that was once called Asia Minor , and Greek. Asia Minor were St Paul help to establish the seven churches of Asia. Not with Turks but with Greeks. The populations of both Greece and Israel are very similar in size. I believe it is about 10 to 12 million each. Imagine the two arguably oldest races in the world and Turkey a relative newcomer has a population of nearly 80 million. I expect you know all of this and more but I am just writing it out there. I have tried not to comment recently because when I think of all the wars I find it all very upsetting. But unfortunately there are no other Greeks taking up the fight , it can’t just be left to me. No wonder we are lost. Have to laugh otherwise I will cry. That is why I agree with you Michael to a certain extent. Stupidity. Yes . Mentally lazy. No. Just preoccupied with different things. Evil no. So I know the good and the bad as far as Greeks are concerned. But since we are critiquing nations may I also ask one thing. Mr Vanyukov, can I ask you one thing with regard to Judaism and jewish people. If the Jewish people have been chosen to be a lamp unto the nations how far do you think they have been able to fulfil the task? I for one want them to live in peace in order to do so. But it will be interesting to see what you think. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 28, 2024 Mia, I don’t think I am qualified to judge how well the Jews performed in trying to be “a light unto the nations” (Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 42:6). Given, however, that the world measures its time in Jewish weeks and is guided by the Jewish Decalogue, however imperfectly following that guidance, while subjecting the Jews to attempts at genocide, as the Passover Haggadah says, in every generation – it seems to me the Jews have done pretty well. Not for themselves, again – the world does not seem to appreciate that light or other contributions too much.
Michael Vanyukov March 28, 2024 Joseph and Mia, obviously, I did not mean ALL Europeans, and I am not tarring everybody with the same brush. It is a truism that there is a great variation in the opinions and attitudes – as a geneticist, I am quite aware of that. It is a common shorthand – just as you can talk about “Americans” when considering policies of the current government in relation to, say, Israel, without having to say every time that, likely, more than half of Americans disagree with the Democrat policies. I was probably too categorical in my short statement and definitely did not want to offend allies like you or sane Europeans. And surely I hope that the situation in Europe will change. People like Geert Wilders give me some hope for that. Nonetheless, as Mia says, “Moslems are flooding Europe by design! Moslems are living on the hard work of Europeans, as they are given everything when they arrive when many actual Europeans themselves are struggling.” Note that when saying that, there is no caveat that it is not ALL Muslims – the same shorthand I used. Given that we agree, I don’t really see the reasons for you to be upset by my words. It’s about time for Europeans (in greater numbers) to be preoccupied by their problems. It would also be unrealistic not to take into account that Europeans have free elections and bear some responsibility for their choice as a voting population regardless of the class (again, that’s not to say ALL). I also suspect that the “working-class Europeans” outnumber the rest. So, whatever designs the E.U. admin might have, they do not rule in a vacuum. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 28, 2024 Many ancient cultures have divided time into seven-day weeks (the ancient Greek “hebdomad” is an example). The earliest human calculation of time, apart from the simple division into day and night, was understanding the cycles of the moon, which everyone can notice. The Babylonians were especially precise in these matters. Once you see that the moon waxes and wanes in a period of roughly 30 days, the division of that time into four weeks is a natural development. It isn’t something that comes out of Genesis. To be perfectly frank, all this talk about “a light unto the nations” is itself part of the entire problem. Every nation and culture is a light unto itself. It has its own identity and practices and laws and styles and patterns. Different cultures can learn useful things from each other, but the notion that one of them is “special” and “authoritative” over the others is arrogant. This “light unto the nations” crap is where we Americans got the stupid idea that we are “a city on the hill” that must serve as a model to all other nations. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 28, 2024 Joseph, I responded to the question – to the best of my limited abilities. The expression is biblical and says nothing about being “authoritative” or “special” – those are your words. If you choose to interpret it as arrogant, it is, again, your view and choice, not Jewish. As to Mia’s original question and my response to it: the week, according to which the world lives, is Jewish, regardless of how many other civilizations have had 7-days weeks and whether it is natural or not. And I did not exactly mean the 7 days. I meant that your Saturday could be on Monday, and the first day of the week on Tuesday, but they are when when they are because of Shabbat (it is actually called like that in other languages – “subbota” in Russian for instance). Every culture may be a light unto itself, but not every culture is a light unto others. Perhaps living according to bushido would be better than according to what is called Judeo-Christian ethics (or, at least, having that as the foundation), but that is not the reality. And the US has indeed been the “shining city on the hill,” for that matter – for many others. For those who have been oppressed by the Marxians of the world, for instance. In Soviet Moscow, we always looked at the flag over the US Embassy as a symbol of freedom – we did not think it was “stupid.” Too bad the US has been losing that shining, along with its religious foundation. And it’s not the Babylonians who are taking over. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 28, 2024 Michael, we have no serious disagreement. It hardly matters where the division of the month into weeks comes from. As for “a light unto others,” I find it an unfortunate phrase. My basic argument is that every nation, race, and culture has its own essential nature, and also has the right to defend that essential nature from the intrusions of others. After all, this is what the Israelis are fighting for right now — the right to be a Westernized, Jewish state, with their own laws and rules and operational choices! They do not want to be engulfed in Levantine squalor, sharia-law, and ignorance. The American flag that you saw flying back in the past was not a “light unto the nations” symbol. It was a symbol of toughness, counter-revolution, and anti-Communism — that is, a symbol of armed resistance to the sick Communist idea that Marxism and the Soviet system were “lights unto the nations.” Communism was dedicated to changing everybody, everywhere! The American flag said “Fuck you! to that idea. Things have changed since the end of the Cold War. Today, the American flag has been hijacked by globalist scum who want to impose their sick DEI and transgender ideas all over the world — another one of those damned “light unto the nations” ideas!
Mia March 28, 2024 Dear Joseph I hope I can call you by your first name. For some reason I find it difficult. I am sorry , I am the one who started the debate about Israel being a light unto the nations. I believe there is something to it but it is my opinion and also the opinion of many brought up in the Christian religion. Jesus was Jewish. So where the disciples and the first Christians. (Just as I side note or btw, I read yesterday a Muslim comment that Jesus is Muslim!) Not to digress though, my take on the phrase , Light unto the nations, isn’t about authority but it is definitely about being a good example to others. I may be wrong though. Not better than others, because it most definitely isn’t about pride but about being Godly. And pride is one of the seven deadly sins. I commented below at the same time as you. Best wishes Mia Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 28, 2024 Of course you may call me by my first name. I wish everyone here would do that. My reply to Michael just above will fill you in on my basic approach to these matters. Let me just add that it is my fixed view that when talking about political or military matters, any mention of religious ideas is a harmful distraction. The only thing that matters in a life-and-death struggle is winning and surviving. So when people start quoting the Bible I get very impatient. Thinking about morals or the Bible when you are in a savage battle only guarantees that you will be beaten. The people who are screaming against the Israelis right now are largely doing so under the disguised religious grounds of “morality” and “decency” and “humanitarianism.” The Israelis (being excellent and experienced fighters) are paying no attention to that fakery.
Mia March 28, 2024 Dear Joseph what can I say. I certainly do not side with those who call for Israel to stop fighting . I recognise it is in a life or death situation. So just because I believe in this one idea, of Light unto the Nations I would not equate it with transgender crap and I don’t even know what DEI stands for. For me, Light unto the nations as far as Israel is concerned is about being Godly. And that includes fighting the enemy, fighting for survival because that is exactly what God instructed. It is really interesting how we can have a different understanding of a phrase. But whatever we think about that one phrase, I wish to make it clear that it has nothing to do with being woke as far as I am concerned. That is all anathema to me. A ploy to bring people down to the lowest common denominator. And then kick them in the teeth for it. I realised also that I have used the word stupid when I really meant naive. Good people can be very naive. Ironically the very people that can fall into traps laid by the not stupid but clever, not necessarily intelligent but clever people.
Joseph S. Salemi March 28, 2024 Dear Mia — DEI just stands for Diversity, Equity, Inclusion. It’s really just a fancy synonym for being in favor of wokeness. Yes, some people are naive rather than being stupid. But in combat the enemy pays no attention to that distinction, and kills both types. I think we can have an honest disagreement about the “light unto the nations” idea. For you it is an important religious concept. For me, I see it as something that can be used by the enemy as a propaganda tool.
Mia March 28, 2024 Dear Joseph, Can you believe I have just received a suggestion from youtube for a video entitled ‘DEI has to be destroyed’ I have never had a suggestion for that ever before. A coincidence? About an hour after our comments? I haven’t listened to it but caught sight of one of the comments. DEI -Didn’t Earn It. Well I think I better start concentrating on Easter instead of being on the net, but it doesn’t help that Greek Orthodox Easter is next month. … Reply
Mia March 28, 2024 Dear Michael I have to be honest I was surprised and therefore sad that you have such a low opinion of Europeans. Perhaps it is because, even without being acquainted with you I value your opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions of course, just as I stand by mine that muslims are flooding Europe and the Uk etc. I expect I give Europeans in general too much of the benefit of the doubt. But I absolutely agree, it is only necessary for good people to do nothing for evil to flourish. So Europeans should be more involved in running their own affairs. They seem to have absolutely no idea of how to help themselves. Is it a kind of resignation that there is nothing they can do I wonder, almost as though things are predetermined. Do people get the leaders they deserve? Is everything that happens to us a result of our own actions? I think these are questions that we can debate forever. On the topic of Israel, I agree, sadly, the world is nowhere near as grateful to Judaism and for the Torah as it should be. But gratitude in general is really something the whole world seems to lack. I sincerely hope that Israel will overcome and be a shining light. The world definitely needs it. (I also hope the world recognises this, but it seems to need help to do so). Is it true I wonder whether to those that much is given , much is expected? I just wish that the borders of Israel were better thought out when it was created. But who knows whether or not it would have made a difference. It is amazing what planning and forward thinking by politicians can achieve or not as the case may be. I better stop otherwise I will be going on forever. If only things were easy to resolve. with best wishes, Mia Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 29, 2024 Dear Mia, while you are sad, it does not seem to be because you are really in any disagreement with my opinion. And I am sad as well, but so is the reality. I am not sure whether people always get leaders they “deserve,” but then I don’t quite know how they can deserve any. What I do know is that when they elect their leaders under a free election system (unlike, say, those in totalitarian states where elections are a farce), they get what they chose, along with the program those leaders had. Often those leaders cheat – sometimes grievously, like did Ariel Sharon when he adopted the program of his opponent after being elected and caused tremendous harm to Israel. But then, the opposition to the “disengagement” was not strong enough, and their cheating hence cannot fully justify the choice. Nobody asked Israel what its borders should be, but it accepted the partition resolution (after being deprived of the territory that was originally thought of as the Jewish National Home in accordance with the San Remo treaties). That UNGA partition proposal was rendered obsolete by the Arab attack of 1948 and refusal of Arabs to accept any Jewish state at all, which refusal has not ever changed. The issue is not of borders and not territorial at all. It’s the Arab denial of the right of Jewish self-determination in the Jewish native land, while Arabs are self-determined in 22 countries, uniquely among the nations. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 29, 2024 Joseph, I totally agree that we have no serious disagreements :). After all, it’s Isaiah’s words, not mine, about the Jews’ role in the order of things – so you disagree with him, not me. Having grown up in an atheist state, I arrived to religion at a mature age – on rational grounds. But even for an atheist, it appears irrational to deny the role of religion – whether “dangerous,” as you say, or not. I am not sure how it can be a “distraction” when it actually motivates people to act and forms the foundation of this civilization. I am saying “this” not because Islam has not created a civilization – but exactly because Islam, which mimics a religion, is the main engine of so many negative events and trends, whether we want that or not. If Islam is not opposed by an equally powerful set of ideas, which can come only from religion, it will be meeting, as it increasingly does, a disjointed population pursuing petty needs rather than a civilization that can withstand destruction. Witness, again, what’s going on in Europe. The only reason we may be not there yet is that Islam itself is not (yet) monolithic. “Thinking about morals” is what differentiates “us” from “them,” hopefully. And no, the American flag was indeed a “light unto the nations” symbol for us. It was not at all “a symbol of toughness” etc. – quite the opposite. We, existing under Communism, thought of the West as pampered, soft-bodied, and incapable of real fighting. We firmly knew – so we were taught – that it was the Soviet Union, virtually all by itself, that defeated Nazis, while the West fought half-heartedly (after all, the Germans were already on the run in 1944). The US and its flag were symbols of freedom, nonetheless, the opposite to the hated regime. Israel is not really fighting “for the right to be a Westernized, Jewish state”: it is a Jewish state (“Westernized” may not be such an attractive goal nowadays) and cannot be any other. It is fighting for survival, as it has throughout its history. There would be no Israel, a real miracle, or the Jews, for that matter, if not for Judaism. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 29, 2024 Michael, I am not against religion. I am fiercely Roman Catholic, and much of my poetry touches upon religious matters. What I object to is what “Religion” has become in the hands of the spreading plague that we can call left-liberalism or cultural Marxism. I put “Religion” in quotes because this particular type is false and poisonous. It is a cult of surrender, of compromise, of supine acceptance of our cultural degradation. And this fake “Religion” is spreading like wildfire, even among those idiots in Israel who are screaming that Netanyahu should surrender to Hamas just so that they can get their precious relatives back. This kind of “Religion” is sentiment, feeling, emotional weakness, loss of nerve, gutlessness, and an utterly brain-dead, suicidal humanitarianism. Why do I refuse to talk with clergymen of ANY denominations today? Whether they are Catholic priests, or Protestant ministers, or Jewish rabbis, or pagan gurus or shamans, they are all INFECTED with this fake “Religion” of spineless brotherly love! They live in a dream-world of fantasy and hallucination about how nice it would be if we all just would get along with each other. One good thing about October 7 is this: It has shown us that the world is still a savage place, and that one can only answer savagery with savagery if one really wants to save one’s culture and race. Everything else is just childish chin-music, even if you can find scriptural quotes to back it up. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 29, 2024 Joseph, as I am no Christian, let alone Catholic, I cannot object to your conclusion regarding what “religion” has become. I am also no rabbi, needless to say, but I know that your conclusion does not apply to Judaism – only to the marginal variety of it that has become very visible here, in the US, unconnected to actual Judaism and, even more so, to Israel. I would also object to your depoliticizing religion, Catholicism in particular, if I may. I don’t think you could hold me guilty for complying with Godwin’s law if I remind you of the Reichskonkordat, which removed Catholicism’s moral role from the German politics. There is no substitute to religion in morality, which inevitably influences politics. Devaluing, let alone canceling, its role in forming public opinion leaves our culture devoid of its foundation and open for destruction. This is not about “brotherly love.” This is about opposing evil. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 29, 2024 Who’s depoliticizing religion? All I’m saying is that there is a real religion, but it is rapidly being replaced by a fake religion of left-liberal and cultural Marxist beliefs, prejudices, and attitudes I don’t think we should discuss this any further, since you seem to be unable to resist the impulse to insult your gentile friends, even when they have expressed powerful support for Israel in this very dangerous time.
Michael Vanyukov March 29, 2024 Joseph, that was a pretty fast shift from having no disagreements to shutting the discussion up. You will or won’t respond to this, but I fail to see how I insulted you or any of the gentile friends, especially regrettable as I truly appreciate your support for Israel. If you don’t mind, do me a big favor and tell me where I did. Then I will correct myself, as I’ve never intended that. That said, how are you not depoliticizing religion when you say, “when talking about political or military matters, any mention of religious ideas is a harmful distraction”? That’s exactly what I referred to. Shabbat shalom. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 29, 2024 If you insist, I’m fed up with your snide anti-Catholic remarks, your contemptuous attitude towards the European peoples, your rejection of the word “Westernized” to describe Israelis (who are in fact deeply Westernized), and your glib insult about a Concordat from 1933 about which you have only a superficial knowledge. As for questions of Realpolitik and military matters, I believe that they must be handled solely with the goal of protecting ourselves and our race and our culture. Nothing else. I am not depoliticizing religion. I am saying that Realpolitik and military matters don ‘t follow rules taken out of the Bible. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 30, 2024 Joseph, I do insist. I regret that the argument, which was supposed to focus on the poem, has come to unseemly rhetoric. Our substantive disagreements are indeed minimal. You slandered me. It is you, not I, who “attacked” the Europeans. It is you who called them, derisively, “stupid, sobbing, oversentimental Europeans,” and that is the first mention of Europeans in this thread, which you made in no connection with the poem discussed. I only responded to you in a similar manner, referring to exactly the same group you had characterized, objecting to your “sentimental” but adding “lazy.” Somehow that became MY attack, not yours, “broad and unfair,” suddenly on all “the European peoples” whom I never mentioned. I have made no anti-Catholic remark either, “snide” or not. It is you who introduced your “fierce” Catholicism into the discussion, while arguing with the Bible as if it was myself and not the prophet who wrote his words. I did not characterize Catholicism in any manner whatsoever, let alone snidely. Your disparaging my history knowledge, an intentional denigration, is as disconnected from reality and from what I said as the rest of your unwarranted statements. The Reichskonkordat did exactly what I said. If you consider that insulting, blame history and Pacelli. If your opinion differs, state it. The stridency of your tone is not justified. I don’t know which “our race” exactly you are protecting and how (the connotations to that terminology are mostly ugly), but denying the moral aspect to the military actions—“rules taken from the Bible”—is unrealistic to our/Western-type militaries, despite the German oh-so-popular misnomer Realpolitik. To be sure, those rules have to be followed especially stringently by the IDF, ever judged on the double standard. Modern Israel never needed to be “Westernized,” condescending as that sounds: it was founded, governed, and developed by Western people. Perhaps of the wrong “race.”
Joseph S. Salemi March 30, 2024 Look, Michael — this is not the season for fighting, but if you want a fight I’ll give you one. Perhaps we can avoid it by simple discussion. I brought up the fact that many Europeans (not all) are strangling from an imposed sentimentalism — one has been taught to them since childhood by left-liberal and crypto-Communist teachers. I have said this before, in other discussion thread here. They suffer from elephantiasis of the Categorical Imperative, and they think with their tear ducts. Some of them — thank God — are fighting back. You denied this, and said that they were “lazy,” and then you added “Summing up in evil.” That is a sweeping judgment, even though had previously said that you did not wish to tar all Europeans with one brush. You seem to have a problem with the words “Western” and “Westernized,” as if they cannot be rightly attached to Jews, even though many Jews today have strongly Western heritages and backgrounds, both in cultural habits and bloodlines. That happens to be the very same argument of Nazi ideology — namely, that the Jews “do not belong in the West,” and cannot be “accepted as genuine members of Western civilization.” Is that your belief? Are you in agreement with Heinrich Himmler? The Vatican’s Concordat of 1933 with Germany was one of many such agreements made over the course of history between the Church and various states. They are drawn up to protect and guarantee the rights of the Church vis-a-vis secular power, and to create a modus vivendi that avoids conflict. The Concordat of 1929 between the Church and the Fascist Italy was done for such a reason, and remains basically in force today. These Concordats are not done for “moral” reasons, but for real-world advantage. Germany had a very long history of anti-Catholicism, and it broke out several times, in Prussia before the union of 1870, and in Imperial Germany under Bismarck’s Kulturkampf. The Catholic Church had to be aware at all times of her position, and how to protect herself from persecution, confiscation, and despoliation. Pacelli’s purpose (and the Vatican’s) in 1933 was to make the best of a bad situation. Hitler’s political victory rendered it clear to anyone with perception that any non-Nazi party would be banned, and in any case, the Catholic Zentrum Party was already on its last legs. The Concordat’s aim was to trade off political influence (which the Church really no longer had) and make a deal for the protection of Catholic schools, hospitals, religious orders, and social organizations from Nazi interference. Frankly, it was the very best agreement that could be made under the circumstances. By 1933 there wasn’t any institution in Germany (secular or religious) that was in a position to fight with the Nazis. So it is unfair and anti-Catholic of you to bring up this agreement now as a reproach to me or to anyone in the Catholic Church. We did what was best for us in a bad situation, and did not anticipate that Hitler’s regime would essentially disregard the Concordat and harass us anyway. It may have been a mistake in retrospect, but in fact it was a wise move in 1933. My race is the European race, and I do not consider the word “race” to be ugly in any way. It is purely a shorthand description that everyone understands, and never had a problem with until the imbecilities of liberalism started to poison us. I thought you would be immune to this anti-racial-identity con-game. Realpolitik is VERY real. And so is military action. Ask any combat field officer on this planet if he would willingly allow interference from religious parties in how he decides on tactics.
Mike Bryant March 30, 2024 Every single country suffers under the carefully preserved delusion that their culture, their needs and their history is important to their leaders. Nothing could be further from the truth. We the people do not control who our leaders are OR what they do. We simply pay the tab. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 30, 2024 Mike, “we” may not control things as the leaders do, but that does not really lift responsibility for one’s own choices, whatever those leaders may think of them. Banally, what matters is what is important to you, not to the leaders. Reply
Mike Bryant March 30, 2024 I am talking about all the citizens who have lost their vote through no fault of their own.
Michael Vanyukov March 30, 2024 Season or not, Joseph, it was not I who stooped to personal attacks and slander. You think your maligning Europeans is better than mine, and I should keep to the conclusions only you can arrive to? Good luck with attempting to censor and, how they call it now, “cancel.” I do think that the European (or Democrat, or Communist) attitude to Israel sums up to evil. You are free to maintain that they are “stupid, sobbing, oversentimental,” with no outcome of evil – it’s your business, but I have tarred “all” the Europeans with one brush no more than you have. Please own it, unless your standard is double. You are filling your text with strawmen. I’ve never had a problem with the word “Western,” which I have used myself, including my previous post. My problem was, again, with your condescending “Westernized” as applied to Israel’s alleged goals. Your talk about “many Jews” and their “bloodlines,” whatever that means, with “strongly Western heritages and backgrounds” is supposed to deal with the Nazi constructs – on the very same racialist grounds. How about those Jews that are not of those “bloodlines” – are they in need to be “Westernized”? Let me assure you as a geneticist: there is no “European race,” which you fight for with empty verbiage. It has foundation neither in biology nor in culture – only in the divide et impera politics of totalitarians, from Nazis to Communists to “Democrats.” It is the racial identity game that is “con,” and you are playing it just as some Ibram X. Kendi or another race-baiter. It is ugly not only by supplying false identities, but also because of its ugly history and the present. It is unconscionable of you to ascribe to me Nazi thoughts, insinuating that I am in agreement with Himmler, in a statement with the lame disguise of a question mark, while knowing that I am Jewish. It is you who keeps talking about the nonexistent “European *race*,” to which no Jew would consider him/herself belonging. Not with the history of the Europeans’ treatment of the Jews and with the Jews’ being of just about all known races. Your racialist fight is of no concern of mine, just like Kendi’s or DEI’s are not. The Jews could not care less whether they are “accepted as genuine members of Western civilization” or not, whether it’s you or Nazis who cogitate on that. We have more pressing problems. As to Realpolitik, you again respond to your own thoughts, not mine. I disagree with your whitewashing of the Concordat, which, again, addresses no argument of mine. Pacelli was more afraid of Communists than he was of Nazis, but there would be no Concordat if the Church were already impotent, as you describe, and the Nazis did not need its removal from politics. It was initiated by the Nazis, so they, unlike you, definitely did not consider the Church and the Center Party insignificant in 1933. Yes, the 20 mln German Catholics (then 40% of the German population) obtained Nazi protection from Nazi thugs (even though Pacelli could never be sure of that while he did keep his end of the deal), but at the price of the Nazis’ getting rid of their strong opposition, and the Church disbanded powerful anti-Nazi and youth Catholic organizations. The Church and the Catholic clergy could no longer speak on political matters and be members of political parties. I did not “reproach” you (what do you have to do with that history?) – I only reminded you of the rather infamous consequences of the removal of the Church’s moral voice from the political discourse, which you consider a “wise move” anyway, relevant because you advocated for the same thing. How is that a reproach if you have no problem with and approve that? If it is “anti-Catholic” to mention the relevant Catholic history, it is the history that is anti-Catholic. Tellingly, you did not consider it anti-Jewish to mention “the Jewish leader of a Jewish-Nationalist-German organization that supported the Nazis” (a marginal group of idiots who were against the “Marxist Jews” and were disbanded by the Nazis in two years after coming to power) and calling Jewish Democrats his “heirs.” Bad as those Democrats are – and I’ve called some of them quislings, – that is a gross and indeed “sweeping judgment,” bordering on Jew-hate. Again, you are in the echo chamber with yourself, with your baseless accusations, slander, and uncalled-for rudeness. Any combat officer from a civilized country will always consider the moral, i.e., religion-derived, implications of his actions, up to disobeying an order if he considers it immoral. And a failure to disobey an immoral order will be grounds to a court action. “Interference from religious parties” in military actions is a straw man, but the civilian leaders, who are superior to the military command, may well be, and have been, strongly religious. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 31, 2024 Good Lord, you really are in a dream world, aren’t you? Israel is now fighting for its life precisely BECAUSE it is perceived as a Western outpost that is colonizing a non-Western territory. That is why you are hated and attacked. You are in the very same position as the Crusader kingdoms and principalities of the medieval period. You think your enemies give a damn about any mythic scriptural claims to Palestine that you might make? Don’t make me laugh! They would be attacking you if you were worshipers of Zeus or Isis, or if you were agnostic freethinkers. You are intruders there, by right of military conquest, just as we Americans are here as intruders by right of military conquest. Get used to it, and stop moralizing. And here I am, making a very stout defense of Israeli actions in Gaza, and of the Israeli right to defend itself as an outpost of Western civilization, and you presume to give me arguments about every little thing if it doesn’t suit your parochial preferences? I’m speaking up strongly and openly in defense of Israel, and you have the nerve to accuse me of “Jew-hate”? Yes, you do think like Heinrich Himmler if you say that the Jews are not a part of Western Civilization, and have nothing to do with Europe. That is simon-pure Nazi ideology. No question mark. Wake up, pal. Right now, you need all the friends you can get. Protesting that you are not Western isn’t going to cut any ice with Hamas. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 31, 2024 Not only have I NOT said that “the Jews are not a part of Western Civilization” or “are not Western”- I said the exact opposite: “Israel never needed to be “Westernized,” condescending as that sounds: it was founded, governed, and developed by Western people. ” Israel is not fighting for the goal you invented, “the right to be a Westernized, Jewish state” – it is both, cannot be any different, and is fighting for its survival, as would any country that has been attacked by murderous savages. You are misled by your focus on the “European race,” which led you to the vile “Himmler” statement you have doubled down on. It is that “race” that the Jews have nothing to do with, nor does anybody, if only because it does not exist. Not only because there is no such race in any scientific nomenclature but because “race” in general has no scientific validity as a construct, which serves only to divide society to better control it. With your fixation on “race,” seemingly as strong as Himmler’s, you should read the Pius XI 1937 encyclical that enraged the Nazis, “Mit brennender Sorge” – it talks about how that focus is idolatrous. Not my words – the pope’s. He did not consider the issue “parochial.” Arabs have attacked Israel not because it is “an outpost of Western civilization.” They have because it is a Jewish state in the midst of the Muslim sea. The have attacked the Jews throughout the Muslim world, where now there are no Jews remaining to speak of, and led bloody pogroms long before Israel the state. Some were organized by Amin al Husayini, the Grand Mufti, appointed by the British Mandatory administration, later famous for recruiting Muslim battalions for Waffen SS, conversing with Hitler, visiting a concentration camp, and living in Germany throughout the war. The pogroms had the same reason as the pogroms in imperial Russia, in Ukraine, in Germany, and, finally, in the Shoah: Jew-hate. Rooted in the history of Christianity and a scriptural part of Islam, with which you are unfamiliar. No “outposts.” There is no “moralizing” here – just elementary history you either ignore you unaware of. Likely the former, as not fitting your racialist concept of what “Western” means. And please, quit demanding credit for supporting Israel. While appreciated, as I’ve said more than once, it is common decency and common sense to support a democracy against savages. That it is a Jewish democracy is beside the point – it’s no different than if it were a Christian one. Of the “European race.” It is not of “Zeus worshipers” – but I’ve never said that Islam hates the Jews exclusively – it hates everybody and even those who differ in their Islamic views within Islam, as predicted about Ishmael from whom it derives its heritage. Nonetheless, Israel is the Jewish state and is hated because of that, not because it’s an “outpost.” The “outpost” reasoning is convenient to those, the world rulers included, who do not want to deal with the fact that Islam, Bush’s “religion of peace,” is a totalitarian ideology with the stated scriptural goal of world domination and – specifically – the genocide of the Jews. I must be “parochial” to note that, I guess. Reply
Joseph S. Salemi March 31, 2024 Fine. Believe whatever fantasies you like. They seem to comfort you. But don’t be surprised when the real world bites you on the ass, as happened on October 7.
Michael Vanyukov March 31, 2024 You make no sense, have no notion of civilized discussion, but your words speak for themselves. Vile. Reply
Brian A. Yapko March 31, 2024 Michael and Joe, I have followed your spirited exchange of ideas regarding Israel and why Muslims hate it so. I think you both make good points, Joe’s focus is on political and geographic realism and Michael’s is on the existential threat Jews face from Hamas and the injustice of the rise of global antisemitism. I have no interest in arguing with anyone here and hope to offer some reconciliatory thoughts as well as some additional relevant data. I just have three things I want to say: My first comments are addressed to Michael: this is not a war that can be fought successfully on theological grounds unless the Jewish people are literally relying on divine intervention. This does not mean to stop praying, but it means we have to also understand the political currents at play here. Joe’s points about how Muslims hate Israel because of perceiving it as a Western outpost seems insightful to me. This is not to say that your point about how Muslims hate Jews is not also insightful, but the leftist “zeitgeist” right now hates Israelis as white colonizers, no matter how inaccurate this is. As between the varying “hate-factors” identified by Joe and you, I don’t see a reason to choose one source of hate over another. Moreover, I’ve learned many lessons in life about distinguishing between our friends and our enemies. I think Joe has demonstrated his support for Israel unambiguously and vigorously. I personally am deeply grateful for that and think it’s time to recognize that different people may support Israel for different reasons. He has very astutely explained the psychology of those who hate Israel and he has offered a deep realpolitik discussion regarding what is at stake here – not only the survival of the Jewish people but Western civilization. Perhaps the three of us are not completely aligned, but we are on the same side here. Let us be grateful for that fact. My second point to both of you is about theology. We know what the Bible says. I agree with Joe that in this context, reliance on the Bible is not a winning argument. That, at least, is how I take Joe’s comments about Zeus, etc. But that being said, when the theology is removed a vacuum is created because we are actually dealing with competing theologies: Muslim antipathy for Jews is indeed theological and not merely a social-justice hatred for the West. There is a deep-rooted psychology at play of those who gladly go to their deaths as martyrs if they can kill Jews. They actually believe they’re headed for Paradise. Gaza elementary schools teach math this way : “If five freedom fighters are attacked by pig-Jew infidels and one of the freedom fighters is martyred, how many are left?” This goes far beyond hatred of Western Culture. It is terrifying religious fervor. If the Muslims are willing to die for a Jew-free theocracy how does one fight that other than with competing theology? Sure one (perhaps should) divorce the entire argument from theology, whether Jewish or Muslim. But I think the Koran-citing Jew-haters will have something to say about it. My third comment is directed to Joe. Because this is a teaching site and has many unschooled readers who may not have the inclination to do the research, as well as some malign readers who have a penchant for cherry-picking and twisting arguments to suit their own agendas, I hope you won’t mind if I respond to your comment about Israel as a Middle East corollary to the United States – in particular your describing it as land acquired by virtue of conquest. This has a narrow realm of validity if you’re referring to the War of Independence in which Israel did not conquer so much as fight to implement the United Nations partition of British Palestine. It has a larger realm of validity if you’re referring to the West Bank, Golan Heights and Gaza acquired by Israel in the Six Day War when Israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria and Jordan who expected to eliminate Israel once and for all but, to everyone’s surprise, attacked and lost. But this “conquest” paradigm collapses if it is meant to describe the Jews overall as a colonizing population of foreigners. An uninterrupted, continuous Jewish presence in Israel is archaeologically documented going back to at least 800 B.C. I wrote an article about this with a summary of exemplar artifacts and other objects which presents objective, scientific verification of an uninterrupted Jewish presence for at least 2800 years. I wrote this article precisely so that I could call out those who think Jews are not indigenous to be science-deniers. It was a frequent misconception held by many in the West for many years that all Jews were exiled from Israel shortly after the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. However, the archaeological record, the documentary record, even the cemeteries demonstrate that there has never been a time in all that history when there wasn’t some Jewish presence in the Holy Land, even under the Byzantines, the Muslim caliphates and the Ottomans. Jews were often a minority, to be sure. But a robust one. If you haven’t already seen it, you might find this article I wrote of some interest: https://www.sfmew.org/jews-are-the-indigenous-people-of-the-holy-land/ The town of Peki’in mentioned in my article is of particular interest because when the Romans kicked the Jews out, those Jews incontrovertibly stayed. But many others did as well, as is shown by graves and documents. There is not one year in the recorded history of Israel going back to the Kingdom of David that Israel has not known Jews. Although leftists and the woke regard Jews as colonizers, Jews are the indigenous people of Israel. There is a reason why Zionism did not focus on any spot in the world where they could have settled. Madagascar? Siberia? Rhodesia? Guyana? Only Israel would do. There was already an uninterrupted Jewish presence there with deep historical, physical and cultural roots (not to mention theological ones.) Zionist Jews were simply coming home. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 31, 2024 Dear Brian, my argument is not theological. It is historical. There is no theology in the fact that the Jewish patrimony in the Land of Israel is based not only on the uninterrupted history of residing there but on Judaism: without it, not only would there be no Israel but that history and Jews themselves would not exist. As Max Dimont noted, in rabbinical Judaism, G-d became portable, allowing continued Jewish existence far beyond and long after all expulsions and travels. There is no theology either – at least, not mine – in the fact that hate for Israel is basically Jew-hate. While its roots are in both Christian history (the Orthodox churches have not even abandoned the deicide accusation, and some Catholic branches, like that of Mel Gibson’s, have not either), and in Islam, in which it is scriptural and not reinterpretable, hate is hate. It is an emotion that the human limbic system produces when not controlled by the cortex. Which is where morality resides. Sort of what Joseph’s did, unprovoked, with his vile accusations. The problem with Muslim scriptural Jew-hate is that it would not allow reconciliation with a Jewish state in any shape or form, in any borders, on what they perceive as a “Muslim land.” For Islam, it does not matter for how long the Jews have lived in the Land – what has been under Muslim dominion constitutes an inviolable Muslim trust, wakf, to be recaptured if “lost.” Let alone the land that is within the “Muslim” lands, like a thorn in the side. For Israel, that is thus not a land dispute but an existential issue. If Israel has not demonstrated and continued to show to the surrounding countries that attacking it would be futile, no peace agreement with them would hold for a moment. I’ll leave it to your imagination what the world’s reaction would be to Israel’s destruction, but Islam’s Jew-hate is of no concern to the world, and Israel can really count only on herself, just as Menachem Begin alluded to when replying to Biden’s 1982 vintage threats to withdraw aid. Which is what the poem is about. There is a useful tool called the parsimony principle, aka Occam’s Razor. Applied to this discussion, there is no need to invoke a new, additional, explanation for a phenomenon when the old one fits perfectly and the phenomenon has not changed. There is no need to invent the “outpost of Western civilization” as the explanation of the pogrom savagery that has had a millennia-old history. The Arab rapists and murderers cared about “Western civilization” on 10/7 as much as did Khmielnicki’s cossacks in 1648, York’s Englishmen in 1140, or Alexandria Greeks in year 40. Again, the only reason why that “outpost” explanation has been invented is to obfuscate Islam’s intrinsic Jew-hate, dehumanizing Jews on “religious” grounds just as Nazism did on “humanitarian” grounds, to protect the “European…”, oops, German “race.” Reply
Brian A. Yapko March 31, 2024 Michael, I’m sorry I got into this discussion. You’re really good at dismissing important insights about what’s happening that don’t contribute or corroborate your narrative. Boy, does this feel familiar. I’m done. Reply
Joshua C. Frank March 31, 2024 I agree. This kind of thing is why I’ve stopped participating in these debates and started saving it all for the poems, like boxers who only fight in the ring. Reply
Michael Vanyukov March 31, 2024 It is amazing to me that nothing I’ve written receives a direct adequate.response—only personal attributions having nothing to do with the argument’s substance. I am not used to that in my work. Bowing out too. Reply
Michael Vanyukov April 5, 2024 @Lannie David Brockstein Dear Lannie, I appreciate your kind words and understanding. Murray is really one of the precious few in the West, especially in the UK, who are aware of the scale of deception the world is happy to engage in slandering Israel and demanding from it what has never been demanded of anybody under a genocidal attack. As it has happened before, besides the sheer inhumanity of the savages Israel has to deal with that is ignored, too many people do not understand that Israel, today’s collective Jew, is the canary in the mine, a barrier to the spread of a murderous ideology, and that when somebody defends Israel, it’s for one own’s sake, not a favor to Israel or the Jews. Reply
Mia April 5, 2024 Dear Michael and Lannie I am going to have another go at discussing some points that both of you highlight. I hope that we still will continue to communicate Michael. Lannie you write about a police officer and the swastika incident in your comment, April 5th We in Britain have watched with disbelief not only that but also the case of a woman who took a knife to a painting of Lord Balfour and then went on tv to talk about it. If I were to do the same to protest the Turkish invasion of my country I have no doubt that I would be arrested and charged. Not that I would do the same of course. Michael, I read the Times of Israel and have read some of your articles. In one you write about how two of your relatives were helped by a Ukrainian to escape Ukraine. There are other examples that I know of where a mayor and a Greek orthodox priest are ranked amongst the righteous of the nations because when they were told by the Germans to make a list of all Jews on the island they did so , but the list had two names only, their own. The villagers did their best to hide and help those they knew flee. Now you might say, yes , but even with the example of Anne Frank where people risked their lives, it still does not mean that Europe does not hate the Jews. What are a few examples when there was a holocaust, you might say. Even if millions of Europeans died fighting Hitler. As far as you are concerned Michael Europeans hate the Jews. But yet you can take one incident, and a few others Lannie , vis a vis, a tired and overworked pc as proof laziness and stupidity. Yes there is stupidity but the stupidity is to do with all the western governments. why are they so stupid? well your guess is as good as mine. In your comment Michael, where you state that Europeans love their siestas and so need muslim labor, you really have no idea how that comes across. Do you think the beauty that is Europe was built by muslims? Do you know of any muslim country that is more industrious than Europe? I believe that Israel is not the same today because of the industry of Jewish people. Pre 1948 it was nothing at all. So to almost make muslims as industrious in your evident distaste of Europeans is grating. it is Europe and the USA that has helped to bring Israel back. It is their support that it relies on. So you must see that balance in all our judgements is key. I write this in the spirit of friendship and love for Israel , Judaism and the Jewish people. I believe you should be working towards enhancing support and not always focusing on the negative. Yours faithfully Mia ps, it has occurred to me that Christianity was necessary for the recreation of Israel. Without so many christian bible readers no one would have known that the place rightly belongs to the Jews. So that is one example of what I mean by a positive. Dear Michael , please believe that this is not personal or against you, there is too much at stake to worry about. Reply
Michael Vanyukov April 5, 2024 Dear Mia, while I am glad you continue to be engaged in this conversation, I am concerned too. The reason is that you continue to misinterpret the common generic term, “Europeans,” as covering “the Europeans,” the entirety of them. As I have already said above, in my comment of March 28, that is not the case. I will repeat it: “It is a truism that there is a great variation in the opinions and attitudes – as a geneticist, I am quite aware of that. It is a common shorthand – just as you can talk about “Americans” when considering policies of the current government in relation to, say, Israel, without having to say every time that, likely, more than half of Americans disagree with the Democrat policies.” Again, “Europeans” were not introduced in this thread by me, it was not I who called “Europeans” stupid, and the quality of laziness is as generalizable to the entirety of Europeans (or any other nation) as that they are “sobbing.” In fact, Mia, if you read attentively, I did not call Europeans anything at all. I called nobody “stupid” and “lazy.” I named two *qualities*, stupidity and laziness, not any particular people or nation, let alone all of Europe’s population, that may be responsible for the FACT that Europe – obviously, its *governments* (which in democracies people choose, however) – has allowed itself to be flooded by those foreigners who do not appreciate the beauty and the culture of Europe. Nor do they appreciate Christianity, while neither Christianity nor Islam would exist without Judaism. Coming from Europe myself and raised in a European culture, I do not need to be reminded how much humanity owes it – but that changes nothing in the fact that Europe has imported Muslim labor and refugees – to now watch “in disbelief” the consequences of Islamic conquest without shots fired. Just an occasional terror act, a murder of a Jew, an artist, a Royal guard, a journalist, a string of rapes of little girls, another barbaric action with no end, and adjusting policies toward Israel to Muslim demands and constituency. You are right that Europe and America have helped Israel – it would be absurd to deny. There would also be no Israel without European antisemitism. And the Israeli population would be much smaller without its half that was brought in by the refugees from the antisemitic Muslim countries. It is also the Soviet Union that helped Israel to both become a state and defend itself from the Arab aggression – but, sorry, I do not feel any gratitude to Stalin, who died just before his plan to exterminate the Soviet Jews was to be executed. Motives and reasons are important, won’t you say?. I am glad you read my articles. You can find more, if interested, at https://unchartedforest.blogspot.com/, https://unchartedforest.substack.com/, https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/author/michael-vanyukov/, https://www.utimes.pitt.edu/news/letter-editor-racial-0, and https://sites.pitt.edu/~mmv/israel.htm~. It was three of my relatives – my grandma, my aunt, and my mom – who were helped by the Ukrainian. So you can include me among them. Reading what I write without prejudice, you cannot accuse me of bias toward Europeans, let alone “distaste of Europeans” – only of realism. Every innocent death is tragic, but you are mistaken saying that “millions of Europeans died fighting Hitler.” That is, unless you include 20 mln. of the Soviet citizens (11 mln if counting only the military losses) and 3.5 mln of Nazi Germans, which I don’t think you do. Europe’s losses fighting Nazis were less than or about a million, the largest in Yugoslavia, where Serbs, Jews, an Gypsies were murdered by Nazis and Croats, Nazis’ allies. Not by all “the Croats,” note that – but Croats, while Tito, who led resistance to Nazis, was a Croat. Anyway, I hope, you get my point by now. I am happy that you stand for Israel. So should any human with knowledge, heart, and conscience. Glad to have you as a friend. My best wishes to you. Reply
Mia April 7, 2024 Dear Michael thank you for your kind reply. May I relate something that happened yesterday. I was talking with a friend who said to me, “Isn’t it terrible what is happening in Gaza?” etc I thought for a moment and replied, “Yes, but do you know that Israel is surrounded by 22 muslim countries who all went to drive Jews out. From the river to the sea means they want that little bit of land that belongs to Israel. What can they do. They either fight or face being killed or driven out” She replied ’22 countries , really? I did not know it was that many’ so the conversation turned. I only knew the exact number because of our discussions! Somehow saying 22 had more impact that just saying many. I try to be a friend and I think I really wished for you to be a friend and hence my debates. Now I am glad we persevered best wishes in these very difficult times Mia
Michael Vanyukov April 7, 2024 @Mia. Thank you, Mia, for that. Your encounter is a proof that, indeed, heart and conscience, which your friend likely possesses, are not enough for making judgment. Knowledge is also critical. Next time you see that friend of yours, you could tell her that those 22 you mentioned are only *Arab* countries, which, of course, are all Muslim and all anti-Israel, despite Egypt’s and Jordan’s peace agreements and the Abraham Accords (“normalization” with UAE, Bahrain, and Sudan). That number, 22, is unique: no other nation has anything close. The *Muslim* world consists of more like 50 countries, and that is not counting countries like India, where there are 200 mln Muslims. By themselves those numbers would not mean much. For the topic we discuss, however, they are important: scriptural Islam is explicitly anti-Christian and anti-Jewish. Considering that Islam prohibits “innovation” (despite the existence of different schools of jurisprudence within each of the main sects; the latter, Sunni and Shi’a, being in a permanent war with each other), what is written as a direct command in the Koran and the sahih (“authentic”) ahadith is not changeable (e.g., Koran 5:51: “O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.” That constitutes the basis of constant reemergence of militant “conservative” or “reformist” (about the same; both promise nothing good to non-Muslims) movements in Islam. One of those ahadith, the so-called Gharqad tree hadith, promises the genocide of all the Jews at the hands of Muslims. It is that hadith that is quoted in the Hamas covenant. Except nobody in the West mentions that this proof of Hamas’s savagery is a mainstream part of Islam. Reply
