Note: The Society of Classical Poets refers to the COVID-19 coronavirus as the CCP virus because the Chinese Communist Party’s coverup and mismanagement allowed the virus to spread throughout China and create a global pandemic.


Thirteen Famous Poems

(Updated for the Quarantine)

by Rob Crisell



I think no eye has ever seen,
A poem like this quarantine.


E.B. Browning

How do I glove thee? Let me count the ways.



It was many and many a year ago,
In a kingdom not-so-clean,
That a virus there lived that you may know
By the name of COVID-19.



Because I could not stop for death
He kindly stopped for me –
I told him that I had acquired
My herd immunity.



The caged bird sings
with a fearful trill
of life postponed,
but not the bill.



Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
My 401k is barely there.



Listen my children and you shall hear
Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere.
Or maybe it’s better to tell you the caper
Of how I discovered some toilet paper
At a Safeway only three miles from here.



I must go down to the mall again, to the lonely mall where I’ll buy
Some sort of decent take-out food. This time, I’ll make it Thai.



To err is Wuhan; to forgive, divine.



Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out— DON’T TOUCH YOUR EYE!



Come live with me and be my love,
And we will all the pleasures prove
That yield the valleys, groves, and hills,
So long as you can pay my bills.



Water, water, everywhere,
But all the time we think:
Who wants this water anyway
With so much wine to drink?



Oh, my love is like a red, red rose
That’s newly sprung in June.
But my love says that she’ll murder me
If this ain’t done real soon.


The Roll of Pandemic Poetry

by Jan Darling

Distressed I searched the stores’ long shelves
Past rows and rows of wilting leaves
All paper gone (removed by elves
Concealed within their ample sleeves)?
“Each customer’s allowed but one”
(Unless you can produce a gun).

I trudged the aisles both left and right
But nary did a roll espy
Considering my roll-less plight
No rolls below, no rolls on high.
Then thousands saw I at a glance
Before I woke from blissful trance.

The shelves at back were groaning piled
High with marinades and spice
That kind of thing—too hot, not mild
Without the roll may not be nice.
I fled from there in panicked hurry
Repelling thoughts of vicious curry.

Other shoppers looked askance
As I retreated full of fright
Some, I thought, prepared to dance
But then it turned into a fight.
“That’s mine” screeched one and snatched a box
“They’re rolls of wax you stupid pox.”

Along the margin of that bay
Those fishwives fought with tooth and claw
They shrieked and pummelled in affray
Until the loser hit the floor.
I gazed and gazed but little thought
That shopping could become so fraught.

So oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood
That scene will lure my inward eye
To supermarket aisles bestrewed;
And as my double scotch I pour
My order turns up at my door.




by Joe Tessitore

I went to a show
and I sat next to strangers
a lifetime ago.



Quarantine Nursery Rhymes

by Connie Phillips

Oh happy day—it’s finally spring!
The flowers bloom, the birdies sing…
We’re stuck at home, so thank Beijing,
And practice social distancing!

Netflix or YouTube, where to look?
Your kids are home, you need a hook.
They’ve heard it all, that gobbledygook…
Do something novel—read a book!

This virus from the CCP,
Upending all society,
Made toilet tissue ironically
Our most valuable commodity.

I ventured out to take a break,
And thought that I should shop for steak…
Instead, I went down to the lake
With coffee and some carrot cake!





Political Coronavirus Clerihews

by Raymond C. Roy


Steven Mnuchin,
U.S. Treasury linchpin,
Has suggested corporate wealth
Trumps public health.


Doctor Anthony Fauci,
An NIH bossie,
Is a trusted source
In coronavirus discourse


Donald Trump, the POTUS
And national Asclepius,
Favors limiting social interactions
To financial transactions.


Xi Jinping
Continues hissing
U.S. servicemen were the source
And Wuhan’s Trojan horse.


Charles Ellis Schumer
Vigorously denies the rumor
That he now prefers D.C.
Over New York City.


Nancy Pelosi
Rides the high horsey
As the majority chief
Of the House coronavirus relief.


Tedros Adhanom,
A WHO (you ask?) phenom,
Publically criticized the airlina
When they banned flights to and from China.



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The Society of Classical Poets does not endorse any views expressed in individual poems or commentary.

CODEC Stories:

108 Responses

  1. Joseph S. Salemi

    Rob Crisell — WOW! Those thirteen little pieces are absolutely brilliant.

  2. Alan Harris

    Hilarious! Creativity abounds without the political trash I’ve seen here lately.

  3. Susan Jarvis Bryant

    All are highly amusing, cleverly crafted and a perfect antidote to these troubling times. Thank you!

  4. Monty

    I feel that you five are a little bit too late, now. It may be the case that the severe lack of responses to your above efforts is an indication that America has finally woken-up, and is now thinking: “This is no longer about denigrating China; it’s no longer about deciding which is the best Chinese name to attribute to the virus; it’s no longer about mocking other Americans who ARE taking the threat seriously . . . instead, it’s now about being realistic; it’s about admitting: “It’s here, it’s real, and it can take anyone at any moment”; it’s now about defending ourselves as individuals, or individual families; it’s now about life and death.

    The silence in this comment-section is deafening!

    • Monty

      I missed-out a word above: it should’ve read “the severe lack of REALISTIC responses..”.

      • Martin Hill Ortiz

        Six weeks ago, I was saying that the virus was no more dangerous than the average flu. Mea culpa. At that time, if instead of calling it the Coronavirus or CoVid-19 or Chinese virus, or any other over-there virus, we called it what scientists now call it, the SARS-Covid-2, I would have known enough to freak out. The SARS virus when it appeared in 2002-2003, is scarier to virologists than Ebola. When I started looking at the numbers, I was astonished. A tidal wave was coming.
        The poor response in the United States has now made the United States the leader in infections. We have made the virus ours. The cutesie game of tagging the virus as elsewhere costs lives. Hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of Americans will die. Our loved ones.

      • Monty

        Rest assured, Martin, everyone involved in this thread – those who’ve wrote poems and those who’ve commented alike – is now genuinely concerned about Corona. For some, they might’ve only become concerned in the last few days; but they’re concerned . . they’re really concerned. They can’t admit it to each other on these pages, ‘cos they don’t wanna question each other’s motives, and they don’t wanna leave themselves open to those who’ll say: “See? I told you so.” It may also be the case that some of them can’t even admit it to their nearest and dearest, for fear of reprisals such as: “But dad, you’ve been telling us all along not to worry about it: that it’s all propaganda: a Chinese conspiracy. And now, overnight, you’re telling us that we SHOULD worry: that it IS real after all: that we must start taking the necessary precautions. D’you realise, Dad, that it might be too late now?”. One wonders how many households there are in America in which that very scenario is being played-out at this minute. And one further wonders in how many such households someone will lose their life ‘coz they listened to Dad. I’m not being unnecessarily pessimistic, or macabre, but that’s how it’s gonna be. And once this is all over, the “if only” conversations will go on for many years to come.

        What you refer to as the “cutesie game of tagging”, Martin, was my chief reason for writing my initial comment above. It wasn’t the fact that some had actually chosen to write a poem making light of the situation: there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m all for gallows-humour, it can be vital. What’s more, I thought it was generally good poetry (one of the pieces, although good, seemed slightly rushed, and the last one was incomprehensible to me; not only ‘coz of the foggy diction, but also ‘coz I wasn’t familiar with anyone named in it except flump . . but Ms Darling’s piece was exceptional: well-written, relevant, and witty), but this ‘tagging’ thing seems to me to be puerile: incautious: dangerous: and, above all, manifestly testament to general American insularity. And they need an excuse for that insularity. If others say: “What reason have you got to dismiss Corona? Why are you ignoring it?”.. they obviously can’t just say: “We haven’t got a reason: it’s just our natural insularity.” So, they invent reasons – Chinese conspiracy, Democrat hoax, etc – to justify their ignorance. And the more merry men who join in with the tune, the more it deflects the insularity. That’s why so many are so quick to jump on the collective bandwagon . . deflection.. concealment! I feel that it’s unfounded, unproved, and unfair on all the Chinese currently living in America. And if there were any Chinese amongst the readership here at SCP, one wonders what they’d make of the disclaimer which precedes the above poems.

        I don’t know nor care whether you’re for or against your current prezz, Martin: but I can tell you that he’s made headline-news around the globe (or at least in Asia) in the last couple of days.. for a quote which will go down in history: “We’re all gonna have a happy easter: it’ll be all over by then” (no doubt followed by the usual: “..and I’ll *fastly [*flump blunder] I’ll quickly get the economy back on track: you know that no one can do it like I can: no one’s ever done what I’ve done for this country: I made America great again” . . yuck!). That very quote may eventually stand him accused of manslaughter. When (if) Corona finally ends, and the dust’s settled, another headline will eventually transpire: ‘How Many Americans Did The President Kill?’.. under which the accompanying article will be debating how many people who died of Corona were led into a false sense of security by flump’s “finished by easter” remark, and thus didn’t protect themselves quickly enough? How many died because of his blind ignorance and defiance? And after that, a different enquiry will begin: How many Americans died because of their OWN ignorance. How many could’ve been saved if they hadn’t have initially dismissed Corona? How many Americans simply died of ignorance? And the rest of the world will simply look round and say: “Is that any surprise in a country renowned for its ignorance?”

        And now, in the last few days, when America finally seems to be waking-up, and is finally starting to recognise that which it fears – REALITY . . . what do we see: price-hiking, price-wars between states over equipment desperately needed to keep people alive . . and to keep people alive who’re trying to keep people alive! It’s utter, despicable filth, and America will carry that slur upon its name for all time.

        And also.. in America, the country of spurious lawsuits (I noticed in an English newspaper some ten years ago that some Yank in his 40’s was suing his old school, ‘coz he feels they didn’t teach him well enough, and it’s affected his job-prospects throughout his life), imagine how many millions of lawsuits will follow after Corona’s finished. Imagine: “Our daughter died, so we’re suing her ex-boss ‘coz he should’ve let her stop work one week earlier than he actually did” . . or: “Our son went to a music-concert in mid-March, two weeks later he died; hence we’re suing the organisers for not cancelling the concert.” Phew! The country could become bankrupt in lawsuits.

        And what better example of American ignorance than on this very page, where one commenter has uttered the immortal line: “What could be more realistic than a statistic?” And he really meant it! He wasn’t being sarcastic, as one normally would be when saying that sentence. That line surely has to be framed and kept for posterity. He also refers to statistics as being “relevant”. It’s beyond belief. He’s obviously never heard the time-honoured adage: ‘There are lies! There are damned lies! And there are statistics!’ The poor man just can’t see that the use of statistics has always been the most tried and tested method by which all governments have attempted to fool their people. And the method by which the ignorant willingly allow themselves to be fooled by their governments. He could never imagine that a renowned literary critic once said: “The only function of statistics is to bolster weak arguments.” And he can’t see that he himself then went on to unwittingly dismiss the whole ‘statistics’ thing by quoting: “Between 24,000 and 62,000 have died from the common flu” . . that’s a disparity of 38,000! So what is one to make of that as a statistic? What a waste of space on the page.

        I notice that the same commenter, Martin, has since apologised to you for referring to you as “overwrought”; but why d’you think he said it in the first place? I’ll tell you why.. deflection. The same ‘deflection’ I referred to a few paragraphs back. He wasn’t being nasty to you; he was simply trying to deflect his own ignorance, his own insularity. That’s why I don’t even hear him when he says things against me; ‘coz I know WHY he’s saying it.

        And last, and most definitely least: you’ll notice below, Martin, a comment by someone called Bryant, an impudent little puppet who’s become a pest to others on these pages recently. Note how in his comment he asserts of Corona: “This is a time to take action.” Now let me show you another quote he made on these pages in recent days (a quote he made, incidentally, whilst gently stroking the inside-thigh of his puppet-master): “Mr Salemi, you are absolutely right. I believe that it is astounding that this virus is not being addressed as a flu. Just another example of scaremongering.” See? A pure reactionist, with no thoughts or words of his own; who readily changes his tune depending on the prevailing wind. And he has the barefaced cheek to call another human a “wannabe”? He doesn’t even exist in his own right, only in other’s.

        So, to conclude: America’s finally awoken to Corona. If the little puppet has finally poked his head out of his hole with the bold proclamation “this is the time for action” . . then something must finally be stirring on those shores. And lest America forgets, its best scientists and experts are saying that Corona is still in its early stages, and may not peak for another month or two. In which case, would anyone care to join me in wishing flump a happy easter?

        p.s. Talking of diseases, before you start counting the paragraphs, Salemi, could you pause for a moment and tell yourself: “I’ve got no answer to that. Everything I’ve just read is accurate and unanswerable.” Only after the pause may you tell yourself: “But I’m still gonna answer anyway.”

      • Joseph S. Salemi

        Monty, you’re so profoundly stupid that one is hard-pressed to know where to begin. But let me start.

        First off, you claim a kind of clairvoyance into everyone else’s thinking, and into future events. Did you pick up a crystal ball on one of your marijuana-binges in Nepal?

        When no one commented on your asinine poem about “Good and Evil,” you immediately announced that this proved the poem was great. When only five people added comments on the first day of this thread (March 26), you immediately announced that this “deafening silence” proved that Americans were scared. You presume to have extrasensory insight into the minds of Susan and Mike Bryant, into the motivations of Joe Tessitore, and into my grade-school experience. Can you give us a tip on who will win the Derby, Monty?

        Now you’ve taken it upon yourself to predict massive pandemic deaths, a flood of lawsuits, manslaughter charges against our President, and God only knows what else. You? Monty Phillips? The Delphic Oracle of Kathmandu?

        Let me tell you something that is common knowledge and a general perception here at the SCP: You are a silly, posturing nonentity, with little knowledge of poetry or much of anything else. Your writing skills are minimal, your grasp of English grammar sketchy, and your arrogance beyond belief. Most people here are very polite Christian types, so they don’t say anything. They just pass over your imbecilities in silence.

        Also, you have the typically defensive need of a loser to ramble on at great and tedious length, trying to justify yourself, and to project onto your enemies the things that you are painfully aware are your own failings. I advise you to look up “psychological projection,” Monty. It’s something you really ought to know about — a knowledge that your spotty education unfortunately didn’t provide.

        Oh, and believe me, Monty… you’re really are a jackass. But I suppose that’s pleonastic to say at this point.

      • Martin Hill Ortiz

        The reason I post here is not because I believe this is the most appropriate place to have a conversation about this, it is that I believe the message regarding the coronavirus is of life-saving importance. Probably not your life, but the lives of many. The 29,000 deaths is freakishly alarming because, in uncontained places like the United States right now, the death rate is doubling every 5.5 days. I was just reviewing a model for deaths in the U.S. The paper assumed a nationwide lockdown beginning now, which is ridiculously optimistic, as an assumption. It had 81,000 U.S. deaths. I would put that as an absolute minimum. The flu outbreak of 1918 continued for three years.
        It’s just those who are poo-pooing the numbers aren’t recognizing we are on the steep up-slope here. I am not an epidemiologist, but I have been working in viral research for 30 years.
        This is not political, except in places where politics impedes the responses. China was one of those and the world is paying the consequences. I don’t see America doing better. Stay safe.

      • Monty

        Ah, just as predicted, and just as pleonastical: you’re so obliging.

        Thanks to Bullied and the Brize, you may be seeing more of Good and Evil. No one commented upon it at the time, for the simple reason that no one was meant to comment! As you know, it wasn’t a submitted poem to SCP, where comments can be left below it. It was just a spontaneous, hastily-concocted, jocular response to another person’s poem: made as a comment, and left in the comments-section. By the next day, I’d forgot about it. ‘Twas only a week later, when your thigh-stroker started piping-up about another poem of mine on a completely different page, when I thought to myself: “Hold on a minute.. there’s a poem of mine on THIS page, the very page on which I was having the debate with Bullied and the Brize; so why’s the puppet not attacked THIS one, and instead searched for another one elsewhere to attack?”

        And only then did it start to occur to me that not one of you three had attacked Good and Evil. Could that mean it’s a decent effort? I continued thinking: “Clearly, if they thought it was anything less than decent, they wouldn’t have been able to resist making comments to each other under the poem.” And it’s true. The first comment would’ve come from the puppet within minutes of me posting the piece, who would’ve been falling over his stilettos to get to a screen: “Susan, darling, you simply must see this joke of a poem above. And he thinks he can write poetry? What a fool he is.” Followed later by a reply from Susan (who, I must say, seems to be a perfectly reasonable person, just misguided): “Yeah, I’ve just seen it: very poor. We should just ignore him.” And later, once you’d finished school, your own comment: “See? What did I tell you two? Not only is he an uneducated, pot-headed jackass; we now know he’s a pure poetaster!” . .

        . . but no, not one comment. And I thought: “If those three who would love to’ve found faults in it couldn’t find any faults in it; perhaps it ain’t got any faults in it.” And I started looking at the piece in a different light, thinking: “Instead of it just being a private response to another, this could be a poem in its own right. A bit of tweaking here and there: think of a title (Good and Evil is just a reference: I’d never use such an obvious title if I took the poem seriously) . . . and, you’ll be thrilled to know that that’s what I’m gonna do! Tweak it, title it, and send it to Mr Mantyk. And if he accepts it and it appears on the page, I shall be eternally grateful to Bullied and the Brize for their totally unwitting encouragement. Their silence was so deafening, I began to like my own poem! Watch this space . .

        You give me so much pleasure sometimes. You read through ten lengthy paragraphs of mine in which there’s not one typo, not one grammatical error, with the clearest of clear diction.. and you reply with: “Your writing skills are minimal, your grasp of English grammar sketchy.” Oh, it’s so beautiful: to think of the pain you must be going through every time you read my text . . it’s such a delicious thought. And how assiduously you must read it, lest you miss a blunder.

        And to then see it all reinforced by your constant use of ‘we’ when it should be ‘I’ . . “We all think you’re a bad writer..” when there’s no WE! It’s just YOU! I’ve told you about this before: will you never learn? D’you really think other observers can’t see through that? D’you think they’re not aware that these are the time-honoured tactics of those who speak without conviction; turning ‘I’ into ‘we’ to make it appear they’ve got the support of others, hoping that it’ll add some weight to their words.

        Read your own words: “Let me tell you something that is COMMON KNOWLEDGE and a GENERAL PERCEPTION HERE AT SCP: you’re a silly, posturing nonentity, with..” . . ‘Common knowledge amongst whom? Common knowledge where? In your town? In your state? In America? In Nepal? No, it’s only common knowledge in your head, silly. It’s the same with: “..a general perception here at SCP”.. How do you know it’s a general perception? Have you sent private emails to the general readership, and they’ve all replied to you, saying: “Yeah, we agree with you; we think Monty’s just a..” . . . No, of course not. So stop all this ‘we’ caper. It makes you look weak and desperate when you do it in full view of the public.

      • Joseph S. Salemi

        Notice, once again, Monty’s bizarre idea: Nobody pointed out any of the grammatical mistakes in his post, so therefore there are none. Is this idiot for real?

        Nobody here pointed them out, Monty, because there are too many of them, and because so many of us here at SCP are mild-mannered Christian types. That’s precisely why no one commented on your “Good and Evil” poem — it was an embarrassing piece of junk, and people felt sorry for you. We know by now that you’re an ass, and that trying to correct you would be like putting lipstick on a pig.

        No grammar errors in your post? The “clearest of clear diction”? You must be living in a dream world, or else high on pot. I taught advanced English composition for twenty-five years at four universities, and believe me, Monty — you would have been lucky to get a C+ in my class. That is, if you had laid off the ganga weed long enough to come to class at all.

        By the way, your vicious personal attacks on Mike and Susan Bryant only prove to all of us here at SCP that you’re a low-life scumbag.

      • Monty

        You just can’t get up from the floor, can you? I’m sure there wasn’t, but just in case there WAS anyone in this thread who wasn’t previously aware of your flagrant predilection for turning ‘I’ into ‘we’, for turning the individual into the collective . . my last comment intentionally highlighted it so clearly that NO ONE is now in any doubt, which is just how I wanted it to be. In which case, one might imagine that you’d be a bit more careful now you know that people are on to it . . . but instead, in the VERY FIRST LINE of your latest comment, you say that “nobody here pointed them out because..” . . See? “Nobody” is the collective. I was referring to YOU as an individual not pointing them out, not ANYONE ELSE, and not NOBODY ELSE. How can you repeat exactly the same thing again in the very first line, when you know that people can see it now? It’s there for all to see. You ain’t even got any pride, have you? You don’t care who else is watching; you just do it anyway.

        Like I said, you’re on the floor, and I didn’t even have to put you there. You put yourself there by lying in public, you forced yourself to the floor. And now you can’t get up, ‘coz I’m stood right over you. You know that if you try to get up, you’ll get smashed back down with another of your failings. So now you’re like: “If I just stay on the floor and keep repeating myself, he can’t hit me with any more of my own failings.”

        Stay down there . .

      • Joseph S. Salemi

        Yeah sure… keep imagining that I’m on the floor, Monty. I’m sure it’s comforting to you. But the people here at the SCP know that you’ve been taken apart by me. You just can’t admit it to yourself, but have to keep on dreaming as a way to soothe your deeply felt inadequacy.. Nevertheless, we’re all really sorry for you, and for your hopeless addiction to pot.

      • Mike Bryant

        Dr. Salemi, We agree with you. You are not on the floor. Of course from a ganja-induced haze it might appear so. It’s a matter of perspective.
        We, that is everyone in the known universe that does not subscribe to the John Lennon ideology, know that Three Card Monte is one card short. We all agree wholeheartedly on the projection matter, but C+… really?

      • Monty

        Yeah, “everyone” knows that you’ve taken me apart. The same “everyones” that you keep referring to: the same “everyones’ that you never reveal: the same “everyones” to which you constantly cling to give your words credence: the same “everyones” that have only ever existed in your disturbed little mind.

        You can’t get up . .

      • Monty

        See? You’ve even got your puppet saying “we agree” like the faithful little bitch he is: when we all know full well that he merely means “I agree”.

        What a position to get yourselves in; intentionally writing words (‘we’, ‘everyone’) that you know you don’t mean . . how others must be chuckling to themselves at your hopeless plights.

    • Joe Tessitore

      You go your way, Monty, and we’ll go ours, and take the overwrought Mr. Ortiz with you.
      When the dust settles and it’s time for one or the other of us to extend an apology, we’ll see who has the wherewithal to do it.
      The statistics are still microscopically small, and what’s more realistic than a statistic? But of course you wouldn’t let something as relevant as a statistic get in your way, would you?

  5. Mike Bryant

    Here’s a ‘REALISTIC’ response:
    In a free country, groups like SCP and Falun Gong can exist and thrive. In a free country any burnt out wannabe can bloviate ad nauseum. In a free country, people can use humor to deal with disasters and jackasses.

  6. Joe Tessitore

    I saw on the news drag that world-wide deaths from the Wuhan Flu just “surged past 29,000”.
    According to our Centers for Disease Control, between 24,000 and 62,000 have died from the common flu HERE IN THE UNITED STATES ALONE!

    Just to provide some perspective.

  7. Joe Tessitore

    I’m sorry, Mr. Ortiz.
    You have every right to be upset, and I have no right to criticize you for being so.
    Please forgive me.

    • Martin Hill Ortiz

      Thank you, apology accepted. I agree with you in hoping this doesn’t turn into a worse case scenario.

  8. Mike Bryant

    Nothing happens in a vacuum. People react. They do it quicker and more effectively in a free society with easy access to information. Things are happening. Treatments are being optimized. Vaccinations are being developed. A five minute test has already been approved and is being produced. We are getting up to the minute and accurate statistics (with some notable exceptions from closed societies). The news media is a joke, but a plethora of information is available online. There is much anecdotal evidence of almost miraculous recoveries with proper treatment including of people in their eighties and nineties. This is not a time to panic but a time to take action, and to take comfort in the fact that we live in a free country that has almost unlimited resources available.

  9. Joseph S. Salemi

    The Democrat-controlled Mainstream Media doesn’t want this Wuhan flu crisis to end. It wants it to go on and on, causing massive job losses, stock market turmoil, inconvenience, and hospitalizations.

    As Joe Tessitore has pointed out, the fatalities from this Wuhan flu are infinitesimally minute compared with the 24,000 to 62,000 deaths from ordinary seasonal flu reported so far this year! But you won’t hear that from the lying scum in Mainstream Media. They want to wreck the economy and the social structure of America, simply to help elect a Democrat. Hence the hysteria.

    • Martin Hill Ortiz

      The news story doesn’t pass the sniff test. Dr. Zelenko is not on the front lines. He works out of Monroe County, New York which is across the state from New York City. According to the CDC, Monroe County yesterday recorded its 223rd coronavirus case. He did not have access to 699 patients. This news report from two weeks ago said that Monroe County recorded its second coronavirus case.
      Real researchers mention their team. Real researchers do not say, success is “Not to die.”

      • Mike Bryant

        He never said he is a researcher, he is a doctor seeing real patients online. I thought that the goal of keeping your patients alive was a good one for a real doctor treating patients with ARDS. Apparently researchers have other priorities.

      • Martin Hill Ortiz

        He is a researcher: he claims scientific results. Seeing patients online is about as good as an online poll. “Not to die,” is a badly conceived outcome: that often takes weeks. When seven hundred were infected on the Princess Cruise, no one died until after they had disembarked.
        But this is science crap. I have been fighting it for thirty years and it so wearying that ignorance bullies anyone even trying to do legitimate science. Twitter suspended Giuliani for promoting this.

      • Martin Hill Ortiz

        Monroe County is 333 miles from New York City. Heckuva 1 hour drive.

        And physicians claiming research are researchers. They may not be professional researchers, but they are researchers.

      • Mike Bryant

        Also, Monroe is an hours drive to Manhattan in current traffic conditions. I think your comment was hasty and ill-considered. I’m just a plumber though, so what do I know?

      • Mike Bryant

        You are right, science has been co-opted by the elite. Everyone else must keeps their mouths shut, go home and die quietly. Thanks for straightening me out, sir.

  10. Mike Bryant
    From the website above:
    What would you say to doctors who have no interest in doing research?
    “I would argue that they may not be thinking broadly enough about what research actually is. Every clinician is responsible for evaluating their own practice, and to do that in a robust and meaningful way you need to use the tools of research. We all need to be able to critically review research done by others. For example, the guidelines used in everyday clinical practice are based on meta-analyses and systematic reviews. So I think all doctors need to be involved in research in some way, and that may be different for different people.“

    All the best doctors are researchers.

  11. Mike Bryant

    The Food and Drug Administration issued an emergency use authorization on Sunday, approving hydroxycholoroquine and chloroquine for use in treating the CCP Virus, COVID-19, after numerous successful studies and test cases emerged over the past three weeks.
    In doing so the federal scientists have agreed that the treatment is promising enough to use given the fact it has few side effects and may significantly affect mortality.
    Still, I somehow feel that even the FDAs approval will have little effect on those who want to see America punished.

  12. Mike Bryant

    Vladimir Zelenko MD Office
    745 State Route 17m Ste 770
    Monroe, NY 10950

    Please note that the good doctor does not live in Monroe County, but in Monroe, NY, a simple mistake that makes your argument invalid. He most certainly IS on the front lines.

    According to Google Maps, Monroe County is 351 mi. from NYC, NY, while Monroe, NY (which is in Orange County) is 52 mi. From NYC, NY.

    I hope this clarifies things for you. Perhaps you need to brush up on your research skills. 😉

    • Martin Hill Ortiz

      I apologize for my error. But 52 miles away is not the front lines. And internet doctoring does not give meaningful results.

      • Mike Bryant

        Would it be meaningful if half his patients had died. It really is an honest question. My own doctor is only doing international doctoring now as are many others.

      • Mike Bryant

        International = internet… damn predictive text…

    • Mike Bryant

      Those three bedroom communities have reported about 16% of all cases in NYC. Looks like the front lines of ground zero to me.

  13. Mike Bryant

    From Wiki:
    “Orange County is a county located in the U.S. state of New York. As of the 2010 census, the population was 372,813. The county seat is Goshen. This county was first created in 1683 and reorganized with its present boundaries in 1798.
    Orange County is part of the Poughkeepsie–Newburgh–Middletown metropolitan statistical area, which belongs to the larger New York–Newark–Bridgeport, NY–NJ–CT–PA Combined Statistical Area. It is in the state’s Mid-Hudson Region of the Hudson Valley Area.
    It’s hardly in the hinterlands…

    • Mike Bryant

      This five-day course of treatment costs about 20 bucks. Some are pushing new drugs that cost up to ten thousand and are not as effective.

  14. Martin Hill Ortiz

    I’m all for cheap pharmaceutics. But I’ve seen about a thousand of these maverick doctors with their wonder treatments over the last thirty years and they bat zero for a thousand. He’s on the front lines? Assuming he has been treating people a whole two weeks, two weeks ago, Orange County had six cases. Six to 1400 in fourteen days is why this is a genuine threat and not just ivory tower warnings. This doctor’s a blowhard at minimum, a fraud at worst: too bad you can’t see that.
    Yesterday, Trump upped his figures to 100,000 to 200,000 Americans dead being a sign that this was handled correctly. Which was really, what I came in here to say in the first place.

  15. Evan Mantyk

    Mr. Bryant and Mr. Ortiz, an interesting turn of conversation. Incidentally, the Society of Classical Poets is officially located in Orange County, NY. On the map Mr. Ortiz linked to, you can see Mount Hope, where I live. Mount Hope is essentially countryside, but Monroe is a more populous area where it is common for people to commute to NYC. Of the two people I know who live there, one does commute to NYC. Monroe is also known for its large Jewish population.

  16. Mike Bryant

    Interestingly, Dr. Zelenko is a Hasidic Jew. Apparently a large percentage of his patients are as well. The Hasidic Jews have been hit hard by the CCP Virus. Apparently in Brooklyn they did not respect the social distancing directives. Perhaps the proximate cause of Dr. Zelenko having so many patients. If Dr. Zelenko is a fraud I am sure his community will deal with him appropriately. I do believe that we should take every precaution, and as one over 60 I am not taking this lightly. But I do believe we should be aware of all occurrences that might affect the mortality rate. This virus is more about when we die than if, because we are all heading that way. We are making efforts to hit the top of the Gompertz curve. We will continue.

  17. Mike Bryant

    I meant that we should limit the surge so that hospitals are not over whelmed.

    I thought it might be useful to present my summary of Dr. Zelenko’s interview.

    Dr. Zelenko explained that people under 60 are statistically at very little risk of death IF they have no underlying issues. He also explained that his treatment would begin only after the patient begins to experience shortness of breath. The people dying of this virus attack are dying of Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS). The regimen consists of a “cocktail” that is administered over a five day period.

    The recipe:
    200 mg of Hydroxychloroquine twice a day
    500 mg of Azithromycin once a day
    220 mg of Zinc once a day

    That’s it. It’s a combination of an approach used in South Korea with Hydrochloroquine and Zinc that had good but unspectacular results, and the French study that used Hydrochloroquine and Azithromycin that had much better results.

    Dr. Zelenko explained that the virus hijacks the cells in the lungs to reproduce itself. The discarded dead cells become like the dead on a battlefield that are too numerous for the lungs to remove quickly. The first symptom of this final stage of the CCP Virus’s destruction is shortness of breath. That is the indication to begin the regimen.

    Because this virus is so new, the details are not completely understood. However, Dr. Zelenko explained that Zinc disrupts the action of the virus within the cells of the lung lining. The problem is that Zinc has no easy pathway into the cells and only a small amount of Zinc crosses the cell walls to shut down the virus.

    Fortunately, Hydrochloroquine IS the canal, the channel, the conduit that allows the Zinc to enter the cell. Azithromycin is an antibiotic and is administered in order to handle any opportunistic bacteria that come along. As I said, the details are not completely understood, however the “cocktail” appears to be much more than the sum of its parts.

    Dr. Zelenko is a doctor who is actually treating patients, and a researcher as well since he will be submitting his results soon.

      • Monty

        See what I mean, Martin: he’s just a little pest. An internet-junkie pest. Look how many irrelevant comments he’s made trying to gain a reaction. Like I told you above, he’s got no thoughts of his own; he just copies unreliable, unvalidated so-called information from the internet onto these pages, to give the impression that he’s some sort of ‘informed’ man (a “wannabe” indeed). He’s either not aware, or chooses to not be aware, that the internet can be, in some cases, the most untrustworthy source of information in this age. Of course it’s trustworthy for certain types of information – maps, dictionaries, etc – but for general information it can never be fully trusted, for the simple reason that any member of the public can, if they wish, create a page/site to promote their own view, opinion, belief, etc.. regardless of its accuracy.

        When we used to use encyclopaedias for information, we could at least trust them to be accurate, knowing that they wouldn’t otherwise have been published, but with the internet there’s no such reliability; it’s just an open-house for all to enter their beliefs. And yet this i-junkie chooses to constantly plaster these pages with just such unsubstantiated hearsay, without once pausing to think: “If (IF!) anyone else is interested in this stuff, they’ll look it up themselves. I shouldn’t be forcing it down their throats” And to compound all this, most of his comments are directed to himself. He’s literally just talking to himself! You can see for yourself, Martin, how many of his individual comments are addressed to nobody, and address nobody but himself. He done it recently on David Watt’s page, just came on and started talking to himself. And on another page recently, he just came on and started talking to himself about some chap (just some ‘chap’) who’s claiming that the Italian authorities are deliberately inflating the death-toll in that country. And he doesn’t possess an ounce of reality with which to tell himself that this ‘chap’ could just be trying to make a name for himself in order to plug the book which he intends to write when Corona’s finished. He thinks it’s gospel-true because . . it’s on the internet. How robotic!

        You’ll notice elsewhere in this thread that I referred to him as a reactionist: and it can be seen that in the odd comment which he addressed to you personally, he persistently tried to antagonise you into a reaction. Just look at the drivel he spewed up claiming that the best doctors are also researchers. I’m surprised that neither you or anyone replied saying: “Don’t be so silly. Pharmaceutical companies employ researchers to research drugs; if successful, they then give those drugs to doctors to administer to patients.” See? To say that doctors should be able to research drugs is akin to saying that researchers should be able to administer drugs to patients! And he’ll endorse that. He’ll search the internet to find something which he feels may back his claim; just to perpetuate his argument. Note how he ended that particular comment with the antagonistic and triumphant: “All the best doctors are researchers.” Phew! He even surpassed himself there.

        I dunno where you live in America, Martin, but, to me, another example of the folly of one basing their beliefs around what they see on the internet . . it results in the sheer stupidity of someone sat at a desk in Texas trying to tell others how long it takes to drive from A to B in New York . . in “current traffic conditions”! CURRENT CONDITIONS . . while sat in Texas. It’s utterly stunning. And what’s more, if someone else had dared to reply saying: “I live near there, it’s more than an hour: more like 90 minutes on an average day” . . the i-junkie would’ve immediately scoured the net, resulting in a handful of new comments quoting different sources, the last of which would’ve ended with: “See? 1 hour. I was right.” Possibly followed by: “I don’t care if you live there: the internet’s always right.”

        You make a perfect analogy, Martin: “Seeing patients online is about as good as an online poll.” This Dr Z who the pest has suddenly and conveniently fell into bed with seems to be, at best, just another trying to further his name; or, at worst – as you say – “a fraud”.. and one can only imagine how much he charges for his ‘online consultations’ . . he’s probably just another chap on the make, exploiting this situation like so many of his countrymen are doing; and planning the book which he’s already decided to write after Corona (for which reason he’s currently creating maximum internet-exposure for himself) For the pest to quote his words – at a time when only realism is needed – is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike. It’s all so aimless. There’s a deathly virus enveloping his country, killing his compatriots, and the pest is sat there telling us that a certain county was created in 1683, and reorganised in 1798! What? Who would write such irrelevant nonentities except someone trying to pack-out their comments with as many words as possible, to make themselves appear ‘informed’?

        See? He ain’t worth your time. Like I showed above, he changes his tune at the drop of a hat. You saw it then (“It’s just the flu”.. it’s just scaremongering”, etc) and you can see it again in another comment above (or below) in which he now says: “I do believe that we should take every precaution, and as one over 60 (who last week labelled a 57 year-old “burnt-out”) I am not taking this lightly.” How quick the turnaround. And how equally quick the turnaround would be (maybe even quicker) if his puppet-master were to suddenly look round and say: “This Dr Z jackass is full of shit!” Like clockwork. So, don’t get involved with him. He’s a nuisance. He’ll keep trying to goad you into a reaction, to give him an excuse to further scour the internet. Leave him to his own devices. The one sure way to torture a reactionist is to not react.

        p.s. And all the while, the inhumane bidding-wars for vital virus-equipment continues unboundedly, the results of which can be seen in images flying around the globe of American nurses wearing hastily-adjusted trash bags for protection against a killer-virus. Truly breathtaking! Breathtaking to see the images; and breathtaking to learn that even in the midst of a ‘war’ against Corona, Uncle Sam’s piggy-bank must still be fed. And yet, even in the face of such damning evidence against the merits of that country’s system – people earning fortunes while nurses are in trash-bags – still, STILL the flump-loving, deludedly-patriotic, visually impaired, bible-bashing, blind-eye-turning American people will refuse to see the evidence, or will make excuses for it, deliberately play it down.. anything.. to avoid being exposed to a dose of reality! But even amongst those people, there will be a small minority who, individually, CAN see the evidence, CAN see the wrong, CAN see the injustice . . but daren’t tell their friends and family who CAN’T see. They daren’t go against the grain. Pity those people, and pity their frustration . . that’s no way to go through life.

      • Mike Bryant

        And Monte continues to spew the CCP talking points. I understand the impulse since he spends so much time in Nepal and must placate his totalitarian masters. The only logical explanation for his unwavering support of the CCP is that he has been compelled in some way by his bloody patrons. It only makes sense that the CCP would want their propaganda promulgated here on a site that is steadfastly against them. Xi is smiling… wickedly.

      • Joseph S. Salemi

        Mike, this pot-head buffoon Monty (“Three-Card Monte” is the best nickname for him) is an incurable pain in the butt. As you see, he will go on for at least 3000 words of blustering abuse if you rub him the wrong way. As we say here in Brooklyn, he’s a loser and a schmuck.

      • Mike Bryant

        Dr. Salemi, your diagnosis is absolute spot on. Everyone says so.

      • Mike Bryant

        Sean Lennon does not have to imagine like his dad did… he knows…

        Sean Ono Lennon
        Been listening to ‘respectable’ journalists quoting CCP official numbers for months without doubt or hesitation. Calling it the Wuhan Virus but only days later telling ppl who say it’s from China they’re racist. The official media have lost their legitimacy.

      • Monty

        What? Three new words! And a new nickname! I dunno what to say, and I’m a little embarrassed. I can’t think what I might’ve done to deserve having such an honour bestowed upon me.

        After many months of being lumbered with jackass: pot-head: uneducated: Nepal: psychological projection (of which I’ll never know the meaning; I wouldn’t even think of looking up such an alien-looking term which one might expect to find in the sort of inane self-help magazines which must thrive in America): stupid: Kathmandu: scumbag . . . and now, from nowhere, and just when I was least expecting it, a gift of three new names: buffoon: schmuck: loser. And what’s more, a whole new nickname.. all to myself: Three-card Monte. Phew! I could burst! The suddenness of this has left me quite overwhelmed, and I shall have to sit down this evening to assimilate such an act of generosity.

        May I take this opportunity to thank you from the heart of my bottom . .

      • Joseph S. Salemi

        The phrase “psychological projection” is not some New-Age jargon. It goes back to the founder of modern psychoanalysis Sigmund Freud, and his contemporary C. G. Jung. Both the phrase and the concept were well known at the beginning of the twentieth century, and have been in standard use in scholarly research into mental disorders.

        But of course, since Monty has no interest whatsoever in learning anything, and is stubbornly fixated on maintaining his current level of stupidity and miseducation, he won’t even bother to investigate what the concept of “psychological projection” is. As a result, he’s forced to live in ignorance of something that dominates him. Tant pis.

      • Monty

        Well, it’s been more than three hundred minutes now since your last words . . and your puppet hasn’t yet endorsed them. Perhaps he can’t get a signal on his phone; or maybe he’s starting to wonder if other readers can see how predictable his endorsements have become. Time will tell.

        How comprehensively I’ve got you worked-out; I sometimes know what you’re gonna do before you do! As soon as you learnt that I had never, and would never, look-up the meaning of your psy-pro rubbish, I just knew that in your next comment you’d attempt to brief me on it’s meaning. I admit that it didn’t occur to me when I wrote my comment; but 5-10 minutes after I sent it, I started to think: “That’ll kill him now he knows that I still haven’t looked it up. I bet he tries to brief me in his next comment, or send me a wiki-link, etc”. And so you did. I’ve got you round my little-finger. I somehow knew you wouldn’t be able to resist it; that you wouldn’t be able to comprehend how some people resolutely ban these pathetic scientific-terms from their lives. Such terms are only for those hopeless souls who analyse their own lives; or worse still, let others analyse them. They’re not for the type of people who go to bed at night without having the foggiest idea of what tomorrow may bring! Keep your trendy terms for those whom they’re meant for, and don’t try to foist them on those for whom they’re not.

        In your rush to give me your psy-pro briefing, you addressed it directly to me; yet in your next paragraph, I was relegated to the third-person, See? You don’t even know what you’re doing, do you? You’ve got no control over yourself when you’re steaming.

        And where’s my gifts, by the way? In your last comment, there was no mention of buffoon, loser or schmuck; have you changed your mind since your penultimate comment? Surely you’re not going to take my gifts back, are you? That’d be a cruel tease. I beseech you, please, PLEASE refer to me as a buffoon, a schmuck or a loser. I won’t rest easily until you do so.

      • Monty

        For “it’s” read “its” in the 2nd paragraph above.

      • Mike Bryant

        “Monte is in the gutter looking up at the Star.”
        ~ Wilde Thang

  18. Mike Bryant

    From Wiki:
    “Chloroquine was, until recently, the most widely used anti-malarial. It was the original prototype from which most methods of treatment are derived. It is also the least expensive, best tested and safest of all available drugs. The emergence of drug-resistant parasitic strains is rapidly decreasing its effectiveness; however, IT IS STILL THE FIRST-LINE DRUG OF CHOICE in most sub-Saharan African countries. It is now suggested that it is used in combination with other antimalarial drugs to extend its effective usage. Popular drugs based on chloroquine phosphate (also called nivaquine) are Chloroquine FNA, Resochin and Dawaquin.”

  19. Mike Bryant

    To all medical professionals around the world:

    My name is Dr Zev Zelenko and I practice medicine in Monroe, NY. For the last 16 years, I have cared for approximately 75% of the adult population of Kiryas Joel, which is a very close-knit community of approximately 35,000 people in which the infection spread rapidly and unchecked prior to the imposition of social distancing.

    As of today, my team has tested approximately 200 people from this community for Covid-19, and 65 per cent of the results have been positive. If extrapolated to the entire community, that means more than 20,000 people are infected at the present time. Of this group, I estimate that there are 1500 patients who are in the high-risk category (i.e. >60, immunocompromised, comorbidities, etc). Given the urgency of the situation, I developed the following treatment protocol in the pre-hospital setting and have seen only positive results: Any patient with shortness of breath regardless of age is treated. Any patient in the high-risk category even with just mild symptoms is treated. Young, healthy and low-risk patients even with symptoms are not treated (unless their circumstances change and they fall into category 1 or 2).

    My out-patient treatment regimen is as follows:

    Hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice a day for 5 days;
    Azithromycin 500mg once a day for 5 days;
    Zinc sulfate 220mg once a day for 5 days.

    The rationale for my treatment plan is as follows. I combined the data available from China and South Korea with the recent study published from France (sites available on request). We know that hydroxychloroquine helps Zinc enter the cell. We know that Zinc slows viral replication within the cell. Regarding the use of azithromycin, I postulate it prevents secondary bacterial infections. These three drugs are well known and usually well-tolerated, hence the risk to the patient is low.

    Since last Thursday, my team has treated approximately 350 patients in Kiryas Joel and another 150 patients in other areas of New York with the above regimen. Of this group and the information provided to me by affiliated medical teams, we have had ZERO deaths, ZERO hospitalizations, and ZERO intubations. In addition, I have not heard of any negative side effects other than approximately 10% of patients with temporary nausea and diarrhoea. In sum, my urgent recommendation is to initiate treatment in the outpatient setting as soon as possible in accordance with the above. Based on my direct experience, it prevents acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), prevents the need for hospitalization and saves lives.
    With much respect,
    – Dr. Zev Zelenko, Board Certified Family Practitioner.

    $20 for a course of treatment on an out-patient basis and not able to be exploited by a single corporation who can then buy off politicians. This will never be allowed to happen. Remdesivir all around – Cheers!

  20. Jan Darling

    Please would someone unplug 3-card’s internet connection. It seems to be short-circuiting in the tosh, crap and bollocks between his ears.

    • Monty

      . . and you certainly don’t stand alone in your views; your words will shortly be endorsed by two others in this thread. Maybe more, but definitely two. Watch this space . .

      Trois Carte.

      • Monty

        Extracted from a previous comment of mine in this thread:
        “What’s more, I thought it (the above poems) was generally good poetry. One of the pieces, although good, seemed slightly rushed, and the last one was incomprehensible to me; not only ‘coz of the foggy diction, but also ‘coz I wasn’t familiar with anyone named in it except flump. But Ms Darling’s piece was exceptional: well-written, relevant and witty.”

        Extracted from the puppets recent comment:
        “ tear apart the poetry of those who..”

        How well he’s learnt from his master how to blatantly distort other people’s words to lend credibility to his own.

        And how well he may realise the irony of him looking-up Buddhist on the internet; only to learn that all his comments have been addressed to . . a Buddhist!

        Funny old world . .

      • Mike Bryant

        The atheistic Chinese Communist Party claims it has the right to decide which Buddhist lamas are authorized to reincarnate.
        Of course, you don’t speak up for the oppressed.
        You go along… to get along.
        That’s what’s we all must learn from you.
        Thanks for the re-education.
        It’s all clear to me now.

      • Monty

        . . and how senseless and disjointed some comments can become when they’re solely comprised of fragments and different sentences gleaned from the internet.

      • Mike Bryant

        Deflection . . ignore the elephant. This isn’t about the CCP . . This isn’t about me. . I am smart because I go along to get along . . I know . . I will talk about something else . . That will make everyone forget about my support for the CCP . . Besides it’s not support . . I just go along to get along . . Anyone who can’t see that just doesn’t understand . . I will write . . and write . . and write . . ad infinitum.
        — Monte

      • Mike Bryant

        Thus spake Dalai Monté.
        Ignore the elephant . .

  21. Mike Bryant

    From above:
    “And if there were any Chinese amongst the readership here at SCP, one wonders what they’d make of the disclaimer which precedes the above poems.” – Monty Phillips

    The disclaimer he references:
    Note: The Society of Classical Poets refers to the COVID-19 coronavirus as the CCP virus because the Chinese Communist Party’s coverup and mismanagement allowed the virus to spread throughout China and create a global pandemic.

    My comment:
    Does Monte really think that freedom loving Chinese people back the CCP?
    Does Monte really support that party that is responsible for the systematic torture, murder, re-education, and exploitation of its people?
    Does Monte believe that his incessant simplifications and justifications hold weight with the Falun Gong… or the Uyghurs… or the Buddhists of Tibet?
    Is his purpose here simply to tear apart the poetry of those who he feels are so beneath him?
    Is he here to bring dissension to the Society and an end to the flame of freedom they hold high?
    Does he imagine that we can be converted to his “go along to get along” ways?
    This Society supports the Freedom of the Chinese people and indeed every single person on this earth.

  22. Mike Bryant

    First they came for the Falun Gong, and Monte did not speak out—
         Because he was not Falun Gong.
    Then they came for the Uyghurs, and Monte did not speak out—
         Because he was not an Uyghur.
    Then they came for the Buddhists, and Monte did not speak out—
         Because . . he goes along to get along.

    • Joseph S. Salemi

      And then they came for the over-the-hill pot-heads, and Monty got really scared and ran to hide in Nepal.

      • Mike Bryant

        Dr. Salemi, you should really consider a career in comedy. Everyone is doubled over in laughter.

      • Monty

        Who would’ve thought there’d come a day when I was mighty glad to see the bullied-one join the table? So, now you’re here, sit yourself down (at the other end), put your bib on, and listen; I’ve got some wonderful news that I’ve been dying to tell you.

        Your puppet’s miraculously easy-going other half submitted a brilliant, humane, and highly-realistic poem to these pages yesterday – which we know you’ve seen – and I’ve since been waiting for the opportunity to ask if any of the following words from that poem remind you of anyone:

        “I opt not to accrue vast knowledge”
        “All blissful days are built on ignorance”
        “I forego the chance to grow aware”
        “Vacant-brained indifference”
        “Insight is a blight”
        (my fave) “Bonehead days spent in a haze”
        “Less is always more”
        “I know nothing . . and rejoice”

        Well, does it . . . What? You wanna leave the table? But you ain’t even touched your food: what a waste! Why? . . . What d’you mean a stomach-ache? . . . Well, if you must. But before you leave, can I just remind you of an old quote of mine which seemed to hold you in sheer fascination for many months . .
        ‘I shudder to think how different my life might’ve been if I’d been intelligent.’
        . . and ask you if the poem’s gone a little way to helping you understand that quote? I know it puzzled you for a long time.

        Go on, then.. you can leave the table now.
        But when you’re sat down nursing your sore tummy, you must promise me that you’ll still be thinking about Susan’s poem; and telling yourself: “Everything, just everything I’ve ever held against Monty is contained within that poem, and yet I didn’t bat an eyelid when I read it. All my cries of stupid, uneducated, ignorant . . it’s all there in the poem. It could’ve been written about Monty. It could be his biography!” And once you’ve digested all that, I trust you’ll realise that you’re now faced with only two choices. You can either:

        a/ Take back all you’ve ever held against me, and admit: “Yeah, after reading the poem, I can see now why some people don’t wanna know too much: why they wanna leave a space in their head for the present. Perhaps you’ve got life sussed after all, Monty. Perhaps its me who’s got my priorities wrong.

        b/ You must tell Susan at the earliest opportunity that you think her poem is meaningless and vacuous, and that no one like that could possibly exist in this life. And when she asks you why you didn’t say as much in the comment you made to her yesterday, you must tell her that you’ve since been forced to view the poem in a different light.

        Go on, then: be off with you, and remember, you’re only faced with those two choices.. there’s no third choice.

        Hold on, come back a minute, you’ve dropped your bib on the floor. And what’s that orangey stuff all over it . . it’s like carrots?

      • Susan Jarvis Bryant

        Monty, we have had our differences but I’ve got to hand it to you, you have a gift for analyzing poetry. Perhaps now is the time to bury the hatchet. I would like to rename the poem ‘Monty’s Sonnet’. Do I have your permission?

      • Joseph S. Salemi

        I don’t know what this raving lunatic Monty is talking about. Bibs? Orange baby food? I only made one comment to Susan two days ago, and that was to compliment her on her wonderful rondeau redouble, which I compared to the work of Dorothy Parker.

        Now, once more, Monty makes his usual “argument from absence.” I didn’t say anything about Susan’s “Foolosophy” sonnet, so therefore I must hate it. What an imbecile this marijuana addict is! I haven’t said anything about the California Redwood Forests, so therefore I must hate them… yeah, sure Monty. You really do need help with your addiction problem.

        Moreover, do readers here notice how Monty always tries to give orders or directions every time he posts something here? It’s always “You have to do this, see?” or “You now have only two options, see?” or”You must do this, see?” Who does he think he is? The Dictator of the World? Nobody here has to do spit for Monty. That’s probably why he’s so enraged.

        Neither I nor anyone else here at the SCP has to follow any order or directive at all given by this ignoramus with a ganja-addled brain. We only tolerate him here at the SCP for amusement purposes.

      • Mike Bryant

        I get exactly where you’re coming from Dr. Salemi. Susan and I feel very differently. I will support my wife in whatever direction she wishes to take, but I think her rash decision is ill advised.

      • Monty

        As far as I’m concerned, Susan, there’s never been a hatchet to bury with you personally. I’ve tried to make that clear, albeit subtly, on several occasions recently. I consider myself to be a fairly good judge of character, and I’ve felt all along that you were the innocent one caught-up in all this other rubbish, and that you were an unfailingly nice-natured person (not to mention a born poet).

        In your writing of ‘Foolosophy’, I’m just grateful that at least one other person at SCP (even if you’re the ONLY other person) can understand that not all humans wish to fill their heads to the brim with knowledge; and that some like to leave some space in their head for other things which they consider to be far more important than knowledge. I’m one such human, and because of that, I’ve been constantly badgered for two years by you-know-who simply for being the person in your poem! And when I defend myself from such badgering, as I always will, I’m not just thinking: “Right, he said blah-blah about me, so I’m gonna say blah-blah back to him”, I’m also defending the fact that such people exist: they exist in me, and they exist in ‘Foolosophy’; and it’s nothing less than shocking that you-know-who just can’t accept that people in your poem exist, and that such people might just be affiliated with the same poetry society that he his. It somehow enrages him. Why? I’m just telling the truth.
        If I was to tell lies, and try to give the impression that I’d been educated, and was highly knowledgeable, I could understand ANYONE wanting to have a go at me . . but it’s the exact opposite! I constantly emphasise that I was uneducated; I constantly emphasise that I’m not as knowledgeable as others at SCP . . and what do I get for telling the truth?

        But it’s the lies that mystify me. The name-calling doesn’t bother me, especially when it comes from one who’s not capable of anything BUT name-calling, but the constant lies are inexcusable. And not just from you-know-who: Just today, your other half told two flagrant lies about me: a/ He said that I’d “torn apart” the above poems in this thread: so I simply showed him evidence to the exact opposite. But why did he lie in the first place? And, obviously still smarting from that, he b/ Referred to “my support for the Chinese government”. Not only have I never mentioned such support on these pages, I’ve never mentioned such support in my life! I don’t support ANY governments; I don’t recognise ANY governments: I spent the first 37 years of my life in Britain without once ever recognising the British government. What’s more, I said on these pages recently (conveniently forgotten by the liars) that I detest what the Chinese government have done to Tibet (there are more than 20,000 Tibetan refugees in Nepal, a handful of whom I’ve become good friends with over the years; I know more about Tibet than anyone here at SCP, and I ain’t gained that knowledge from the internet). So, not only is it an outright lie to say I support the Chinese government, but it’s not possible to get any further from the truth. And when I defend myself against such impossible lies, another argument begins, and we invade other people’s pages with our arguments, and innocent people like yourself and others get caught up in them. And it results in things such as Ms Darling today raising one of her eye-patches to say on these pages that I’m talking “tosh, crap and bollocks”. And all I am is the person in ‘Foolosophy’!

        As flattered as I am with your offer to bestow such an honour on me, I’m afraid that I couldn’t possibly give my consent for you to rename your poem, purely because I feel that the existing title can never be eclipsed. A philosophical poem about fools: Foolosophy! It’s so perfect in every sense. And what’s more, when one says foolosophy quickly, it sounds like philosophy. It’s brilliant, it’s effective, and it’s far to good to change.

  23. Mike Bryant

    I’ll tell you what, Monty. You quit calling me names and I’ll quit calling YOU names… Deal?

    • Monty

      What d’you mean “I’ll tell you what, Monty” . . you’ll tell me nothing. I’ll tell YOU how it is.

      Or how it was. It must be two months now since I told you directly and clearly that I had nothing more to say to you, and I wasn’t gonna reply directly to any further comments of yours. At the time, I hoped that would be enough to make you decide: “Well, it’s pointless keep trying to belittle him if he’s not gonna reply” . . but no, on you went, more rampant than ever. It became a new challenge for you; to see if you could goad me into a direct reply . . just so – if I had’ve done – you could’ve then said: “Ha ha, I thought you weren’t gonna reply to me no more”. It was so obvious, and painfully tedious.

      So, rather than just stop “calling each other names”, we’ll take it much further than that. We’ll take it up to what was my original intention two months ago:

      a/ We make no comments directly to each other, and we don’t reply to comments that one of us has made to someone else.

      b/ We don’t refer to each other in our comments to others: not by Name (‘You’re right: Monty’s just a..’); not by Label (‘Ah, I see three-card’s at it again..’); and not by Inference (‘I agree: he’s just a..’). Of course if, for example, the bullied-one says something derogatory about me, you’re still entitled to reply to him directly with such as: “I fully agree with you, Dr Salemi: I’m literally doubled-up with laughter here. You really should take-up a career in comedy”. Such falsehoods give me a sense of satisfaction, so I ain’t got any issues with that . . and you would still’ve made your point, but without actually mentioning me: then it’s as if I don’t exist.. which is my aim.

      So there it is. You may or may not’ve noticed that I offered the bullied-one the same covenant some weeks ago, but he flatly refused: he made it quite clear that such verbal exchanges were his lifeblood, his oxygen; hence it became apparent that he could never agree to such a pact.

      I sincerely – and I mean sincerely – hope you don’t adopt his stance. To me, my proposal’s the most sensible and effective way to put an emphatic end to all the nonsense; and also the most humane way, in the sense that it’ll preclude other members – innocent members – from having their pages hijacked by ongoing feuds between others.

      I ask that if you agree fully to the above, you simply don’t reply to this missive. I’ll take the non-reply as an affirmative . . . and that’ll be it.

  24. Joseph S. Salemi

    Mike, you can see from Monty’s latest post what a lying, manipulative scumbag he is. This is a typical characteristic of most drug addicts. They will do or say anything to control their surroundings and the persons around them.

    He claims that he has had “nothing more directly to say to you,” and that he “wasn’t gonna reply directly” to any of your comments. But in fact that is a pure weasel-like evasion, since he has done nothing but refer to you as a “puppet” and “Pinocchio” and “spastic” and a purveyor of “flagrant lies” over the past weeks. (He will claim, of course, that he hasn’t said these things in a direct address to to you, so therefore he hasn’t spoken to you. He has a tendency to fall back upon petty technicalities to defend himself.)

    In addition, he’s blatantly attempted to soft-soap your wife Susan with saccharine blandishments and sweet talk, as a way to generate discord. That is a disgusting and sinful thing to do, but Monty will do anything to gain ascendancy in a debate.

    Now he shows his real colors when he orders you around, dictating just how you are supposed to act and speak from now on. As I have mentioned previously, he has a penchant for giving orders and pronouncements to other people, telling them how they are to behave. YOU have to do what THE GREAT MONTY prescribes!

    The guy would be a joke, if he weren’t such a overweening creep.

    And by the way, I haven’t made any of the comments here “directly” to Monty. They are all made to you. So according to his way of thinking, I have not insulted him personally.

    • Monty

      You filthy little swine. Just because you’ve never been able to bury a hatchet with anyone, the thought of two other people burying THEIR hatchet also appals you. The very thought of these pages containing less arguments must twist your insides, you depraved loon. Well, it’s none of your sickly business; stay out of it. Your time will come . .

    • Mike Bryant

      Dr. Salemi,
      Monte’s manipulation techniques ARE rather inept. I wonder if drug addicts become narcissists or is it the other way around?In listing Monte’s favored terms, don’t forget “bitch”. You are exactly right about Monte. You’re also completely correct about his attempts to divide Susan and me. Say what you will, Monte does not believe in half measures, he is
      “The Fool Monte”, and also quite the dancer.
      This response is for your eyes only.

      • Mike Bryant

        Just noticed something, Dr. Salemi. Are terroristic threats okay with the Society?

      • Monty

        It was always your choice; and you’ve chosen to continue as normal. So, continue we will. One can only wonder why you made the offer of a truce. Was that just for appearances sake? Also, would you care to inform Mr Mantyk that you’ve just chosen to let even more irrelevant exchanges appear on his pages?

        Wikipedia: Charlotte Figi . .

      • Mike Bryant

        Mr. Mantyk,
        For your eyes only.
        My truce was spurned.

      • Martin Hill Ortiz

        Just stop it. (I’m not talking to one specific individual here. There will be a truce when there is no back and forth.
        This is just filling up space and if someone came here seeking elegant poetry and ran into this never-ending thread, they would flee the site. There are no winners here. If you have to go on, get into a personal flame email.
        I will not respond to responses to this comment as my personal pledge to moving on.

      • Monty

        YOUR truce was flimsy and incomplete. It proposed ONLY that we stop calling each other names. That wouldn’t have prevented you from saying such as: “He thinks he knows it all”.. “He’s just deluding himself”.. He’s too stoned to realise..” . . and a thousand other statements in which you WEREN’T ACTUALLY CALLING ME A NAME! In other words, hardly anything would’ve changed.

        MY truce was full, fair and complete. It would’ve ended the nonsense once and for all, and forever. No ambiguity, no “but what ifs”, no nothing . . just an end.

        For your eyes, Mr Mantyk, if you’re interested.

      • Monty

        I know you’re not gonna reply to this, Martin; and I assure you that I’m not looking for a reply. This missive is addressed ostensibly to you, but also to anyone (if any) who might be reading (including, hopefully, Mr Mantyk); hence you don’t even have to read it if you don’t want to.

        I just want you and others to see that your above plea to all three of us to “just stop it” doesn’t need to be directed towards me. How can it, when I’ve already made it so clear above that I sincerely wanted us to ‘just stop it”? Read all the words carefully: the second person’s proposal was a HALF-truce – offering only that we stop calling each other names – and wouldn’t have completely eliminated the exchanges on these pages.

        My proposal was a FULL-truce, ensuring that there’d be NO further exchanges at all, of ANY kind. Starting right then. That’s why it was laid out so comprehensively, so there’d be no ambiguity, no ‘but what ifs’, no nothing! Just a complete stop. And to make it even easier for the second person, I proposed that a non-reply from him will be an acceptance of the proposal: ‘coz I assumed it might not be so easy for him to actually send a reply saying ‘I accept’. See? I tried to make it as easy as possible for him, so determined was I to “just stop it”.

        As can be seen, an hour after I posted my proposal, the third person intervened. Whether you like him or loathe him, you all know that it would’ve pained him to see two others settling for a truce, and one imagines how he must’ve felt in that hour before he intervened, willing the second person to reply to me and refuse my offer. And after an hour, the third person could take it no more: he HAD to intervene, just incase the second person had decided to accept the offer. And in doing so, he patently twisted the words of my proposal, to make it appear that I was “ordering” the second person around, and “dictating what he should do”: but the terms of the proposal were directed at ME as well as the second person. It takes two to tango! Thus, I wasn’t “ordering and dictating” what HE does, I was “ordering and dictating’ what WE do. Both of us!

        I ask you to use your imagination, ‘coz the following is purely in the hypothetical . . . Imagine that the second person had read my proposal 10 minutes after I posted it, and told himself that he agreed with it, and wouldn’t reply. That would’ve meant there was peace between me and the second person for 50 minutes, until the third person intervened after an hour.. and changed the second person’s mind. 50 minutes peace . . which may have lasted forever!

        Let’s further imagine, hypothetically, that you wanna absolve one person out of the three of any blame for the proposal being rejected. Do you absolve:

        The first person . . who made an honest proposal which was flatly refused?

        The second person . . who may or may not have agreed to the proposal, until his mind was made up for him?

        The third person . . who’s never known peace, and the thought that two others might achieve it was so unbearable to him that he had to ruin it.

        No one can fail to see that it’s me who must be absolved. That’s not just me crying: “Don’t blame me, don’t blame me” . . it’s a fact. So, it’s no good telling me to ‘just stop it’ when I’ve already tried my hardest to do so; and it’s no good telling the other two to ‘just stop it’, ‘cos they’ve made it clear that that’s the last thing they wanna do. So that leaves Mr Mantyk. Why don’t you ask him if he can ‘just stop it’? He’s the only one with the power to do so. But I don’t think he wants to stop it either. I appealed to him directly a few weeks back, and I didn’t get a reply! Which leaves only two possibilities: a/ He’s not aware of all these exchanges invading his pages, which I’m sure you’ll agree is inconceivable. How could he not be aware? Which leaves b/ He’s aware of them, and doesn’t feel that they need to stop. That can be the only possible reason why he hasn’t intervened.

        I’ve been taxing my brain lately trying to fathom why he’d be content to allow it to continue, and I keep coming back to just the one possibility; that he feels it to be entertainment for other readers, maybe in a soap-opera sort of way.. or a gossip-column sort of way. In which case, Martin, I’m afraid there maybe no hope of ‘stopping it’.

        Perhaps you could send him a personal email telling him how you feel about it. I’m sure you’re not the only other reader who’s had enough of all this nonsense.

  25. Joe Tessitore

    If you need Evan to tell you that you need to get a life, then it’s time to get a life.

    Interesting how there are two of these going on at the same time.
    I wonder if we have indeed been sheltering in place for too long?

    • Mike Bryant

      I thought this was over two weeks ago, Joe.
      Sign me, confused. You’re definitely right that we’ve been sheltering too long… I’ll mow the lawn and maybe that will improve my disposition. With respect, Mike.

      • Joe Tessitore

        I was speaking generally, Mike, and probably more about myself than anyone else. I’ve got quite the edge from the other one I was involved in.

        I apologize to all for that.

        I find it very easy – perhaps even tantalizing – to get sucked into these and a lot more difficult to extricate myself from them.
        I don’t know how many times I’ve had to apologize for having done so.

      • Mike Bryant

        Joe, have you seen Dr. Salemi’s latest comment on Mr. Spring’s poem? He has been fighting a battle for people to be respected and not to be personally minimized and attacked for their input. Joe, you, Susan and I have all considered leaving this site because we have been made to feel inferior. Take a look at this comment from Mr. Spring’s page. “Those among us who are steadfast in our desire for high standards have clearly been routed by a horde of sheep-like creatures, and the fact that they come from within our ranks only stings the worse…”.

        So Joe, you, me, Susan, Dr. Salemi and everyone else on that page (except for two people) are hordes of sheep-like creatures who aren’t steadfast in our desire for high standards. Really? I don’t thinks so. Susan and I think you write beautifully. Susan has commented off-site about your work, and you (and the other “hordes of sheep-like creatures”) are the reason why we have been on the site calling for better treatment of participants on a site that is becoming increasingly elitist. Susan thought she’d found her home here and desperately wants to stay because of people like you, Sally Cook, Jan Darling, Peter Hartley and all those people who write beautiful poetry and have been told that their opinions count for nothing.

        Guess what, we do count. Dr. Salemi is fighting this battle for everyone who has ever been made to feel inferior because they’re told they are uneducated and worthless, and has thanked all of us for standing at his side. I may not have the best education, but I know what I like and I know why I like it. We are entitled to a personal opinion without our character and education being questioned.

        Susan has been writing poetry since the age of six. It’s her passion and her joy. This is the first time I’ve seen her sad about the subject. That’s not right, and I won’t let it stand… just so you know.

        Thanks, Mike

      • Mike Bryant

        By the way, you have NOTHING to apologize for.

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